126: Mega Chip Battery Powered Episode with Name-Dropping and Jacket Tracking

(upbeat music)

- Welcome to In the News for December the 8th, 2023.

I am Brett Burney from appsinlaw.com.

- This is Jeff Richardson from iPhone JD.

Good morning, Brett.

- Good morning, Jeff.

Another week, another story about the government

maybe watching over your shoulder a little bit.

Well, actually, maybe not watching it so much,

but they might be watching the notifications

that you are getting on your phone.

I didn't even conceptualize

that this could be a possibility really, Jeff,

but what an interesting story you linked to today

from Reuters.

- Very interesting.

A US Senator, Senator Ron Wyden,

he's a Democrat from Oregon.

For the last year, his office has been looking into this

and sure enough, based upon a tip that they received,

they learned that Apple and Google,

one of the things that both companies offer

are of course notifications.

And so let me tell you what we're talking about.

For example, you may have a weather app

that says if rain's about to come in your area,

it will push a notification to you saying,

"Hey, it's about to rain."

The way that happens is it's not the actual app

sending something directly to you,

but the app goes through Apple

or if you're using an Android phone, it goes through Google

and then it goes down from Apple or Google to you.

The record of that transaction

that the app sent the notification to Apple

and that Apple sent it to you

along with some data involved in that notification,

including in some cases,

the actual text that was displayed on your phone,

all of that stuff is something

that some unidentified federal governments,

maybe it's the US government,

maybe it's foreign governments,

my sense is that it's both.

They have asked Apple to turn over that data

for a specific person.

So they may say, "Hey, I want you to give me

the notifications that you've given to John Doe.

I may not be able to hack into John's phone

and actually see what the weather app is doing,

but I want you to turn these over."

And apparently Apple has a transparency report

in which they, well, this part we do know,

Apple has a transparency report

in which they talk about things like this.

But Apple, this is the part that was the news

from the Reuters story,

Apple was prohibited by the federal government

from revealing that governments had been doing this,

which is what makes me think

that the US federal government

was one of the federal governments

that was asking for this data.

And they were prohibited from basically

spilling the beans on it unless it become public.

And so what Senator Wyden did by him making it public,

then Apple responded and said,

"Okay, now that it's already news,

now we can say something about it

and we can confirm that absolutely

this has been taking place."

And so the thing to think about is why does it matter?

Notifications, the fact that it's raining in my area,

why does that matter?

Well, one thing to think about is if you could figure out,

let's just say that someone has this turned on

and let's just say that over the past 365 days,

you can tell me every single time

they've got a notification that's about to rain,

you can probably figure out where that person has been

just by pinpointing the weather data.

And that's just location data.

So without getting into their GPS

or their locations stored on the device,

but just from the notifications from weather data,

you could find where a person has been over the past year.

And some other app might have different things too.

So you can just think of all the different apps

that you have that have notifications

and then think creatively about

how might that information be useful?

Now, of course, if it's a messaging app

or something like that,

and again, it's not like it's text messages,

but some other maps that might send you

some confirmation things.

Someone, if they're smart enough,

might be able to triangulate with that information.

So, we always know that governments out there

for good purposes and for bad purposes,

sometimes they're trying to catch bad guys.

So we all know that,

but we know that they're trying to get this

and get information about us,

but this vector of getting it through notifications

is just something that never even occurred to me before.

And there's a good reason it never occurred to me before,

'cause it wasn't public before

until the good Senator made it public.

So, it's just something to really be aware of,

that when you are turning on notifications in an app,

if this is of a concern to you,

you should know that in theory,

Apple might be required to turn over

some of the data associated with that notification

to a government, whether it's the US or some other country,

if you have some connection there, who knows.

Just something I never thought about before.

- Yeah, it just doesn't sit right,

or it doesn't feel like it should sit right now, Jeff,

I guess.

It doesn't surprise me that it's going on,

'cause just like you said,

we've talked about several stories before

where Apple sometimes does have to turn over

certain types of information from some kind of a subpoena

or a governmental request of some kind.

But I guess I just, I've never thought about it

in a sense of the notifications that I'm getting.

And you're right, that could just,

even if that's just another little factor

of an information piece, right?

So they could put together with a bigger puzzle

of some other things that they're looking at.

I guess I'm thankful to Senator Wyden,

maybe for bringing this up.

And I'm thankful that obviously Apple took it,

hey, it's like, hey, finally, somebody mentioned it.

So now we're just gonna,

now we're free to be able to say something about it.

The Department of Justice apparently declined to comment

on the push notification surveillance

or whether it had even prevented Apple or Google

from talking about it.

But yeah, I guess I'll be watching this a little bit more.

And I don't know if I'm gonna turn off any notifications.

I'd sometimes just find them to be so helpful.

But I mean, I'm thinking of even like

my WhatsApp notifications,

things like that that come through,

not just obviously from a weather station.

But I guess the more you know,

it's good to at least have some of that information there.

But it still gets me a little nervous.

- What interests me about it, Brett,

is that it's another reminder.

And it reminds me of a story

that came out many, many years ago.

It's another reminder that people can indirectly

get information that they cannot necessarily directly get.

Years ago, there was a story that websites

would want to know who was visiting the website.

And of course, you may have all sorts of blockers

turned on and things like that

to try to protect your anonymity.

But one of the things that websites

would in the past sometimes do

is they would ask your browser,

you're accessing this as a browser,

what browser are you, what operating system are you?

And they would ask what fonts are installed in this system.

And you're thinking, why would a website care

what fonts you have installed?

And it was revealed that because of just the unique fonts

that different machines would have,

that was part of a digital fingerprint.

And if you put enough of those things together,

when the same computer goes back in the future,

they know it's the same person.

And so websites, I mean, browsers have since,

like Apple's Safari browser,

now will no longer reveal some of that information

for the very reason.

But it just goes to show you that information

that seems innocent on its face,

when you compare it with additional information

and you put it all together and you triangulate it,

you can actually use it for a purpose

that it was never even intended for.

And that's what this is an example of is,

we don't know exactly what the governments are doing

with the notification information,

but they apparently think it's important enough

to number one, go through the trouble of doing it.

And number two, in the case of the US government,

prohibit Apple from talking about it publicly

and spilling the beans.

So it's just unintended consequences, very interesting.

- I think I'm ultimately even just glad

that Reuters at least broke the story

and hopefully maybe other watchdogs

will be on the case now and kind of look and see

where that goes, interesting stuff.

But thanks for the link on that.

Jeff, do you think it would be safe to say

that maybe the most important person at Apple right now

is Johnny Sirochi?

- I tell you.

- You lead to a story today, an actual video from CNBC,

which I think you even said in the link here,

there's really nothing new in this little story,

but for the first time, at least that I can remember,

there's a video of footage inside one of Apple's,

I think they call it their chip labs, right?

So what we're talking about now, Johnny Sirochi,

I mean, they call him what, the head of silicon, right?

At Apple.

I mean, I didn't know he was been at Apple since 2008,

first of all, but I learned that from this video.

He's been there a long time and he is the head

of what Apple is trying to do with the Apple silicon,

which is basically the processor, right?

The heart of all computers,

and obviously just about any device that we use today

from a technology standpoint.

And this was about a 17 minute video.

Again, like you said in your link,

nothing brand new in here or shocking,

but just to get a little more insight of,

not just Johnny Sirochi, but John Ternus, right?

Head of hardware at Apple,

just to kind of really see where their thought processes are

when it comes to what they're doing with Apple silicon

and the processors today.

- When you think about the reasons

that Apple's products are so good today,

part of the reason is that Apple focuses on design

and simplicity and making powerful features easy to use.

That's been a historical advantage of Apple.

But one of the recent advantages of Apple

has been these chips.

It wasn't that many years ago

that Apple was using the same chips as everyone else,

Intel chips, Samsung chips.

And then they years ago purchased an Israeli company

called PA Semi that was designing chips.

And as you said, they brought in people

who could help with that.

And now one of the reasons that an iPhone is better

than an Android that costs the same amount of money

is that the chips are specially purpose.

I mean, they are built specifically

for what the iPhone is doing.

And it's been a real advantage.

And Apple has used the chips up and down the line.

I mean, they started in the iPhone,

but they go all the way up to the computers.

They go all the way down to the tiny things

in your AirPods and in your Apple watch.

And by designing their own Silicon,

it has really given Apple a competitive advantage.

So it was interesting.

When I started watching this video, it's 17 minutes long.

I didn't think I was gonna watch the whole thing,

but I ended up just watching the whole thing

'cause it was sort of interesting.

- Same, same.

- Getting a little peek inside of Apple

and the person that did the video from CNBC,

she's right there on Apple's campus and stuff.

So it was interesting to watch, it really was.

- I think I liked one of the things that John Ternes said.

And by the way, both of these gentlemen,

you would recognize probably

if you have watched the Apple announcements

within the last two or three years,

because both John Ternes and Johnny Sorogi

both have very big profiles

in the Apple announcement videos that they have.

Sorogi is always talking about the chips that are happening.

And you can usually see him in the lab.

They usually go underground.

And I think even the last time was around Halloween, right?

Did he come out and say, "Welcome to my lab."

Something like that.

But John Ternes is always in front of a big screen

because he's introducing

what's gonna be the next hardware aspect.

And I think one of the things that John Ternes said

somewhere in here, I can't remember exactly where it is,

but he said, it was like the laws of physics had changed

back when Apple was able to switch their Mac computers

from Intel processors to the M1 processor.

'Cause you and I both remember way, way, way back in the day,

Jeff, when Apple switched from the IBM processors

to the Intel chips, right?

That was huge for us, especially from a legal perspective,

you know, in the professional perspective,

because we could actually run some different applications

or it gave us the ability to even run Windows on a Mac,

all that kind of stuff.

And that was a huge monumental shift.

And I don't know if I even can realize

how big of a monumental shift it was,

again, just three years ago in 2020,

when Apple switched to the M1 chips.

I mean, I've enjoyed it.

Like I tell people,

there's no way I would use another computer.

I even have an i7 Intel Windows computer that I use.

And my M1 MacBook Pro still just blows it away.

Like, it's just amazing how monumental that is.

And the fact that even in three years now,

we're already at the M3.

I mean, just that trajectory even

is pretty amazing that they're doing.

I mean, I guess watching this video

just kind of brought a lot of this to mind,

as in like, I don't know if we really fully understand

how big of a shift that has happened right now

with Apple doing their own processors

and what that's gonna mean even for the future,

the near future even.

- It is, it's huge.

And it's not often that you see these huge chips

that suddenly, you know, one or two years later,

things are so, so much faster.

I mean, one of the examples that I noticed in my own life

is, you know, I often take, you know,

videos of, you know, home videos of stuff.

And it used to be with my former Intel-based Mac

that when I was finished editing the video,

I would then export it so that you could actually,

you know, watch it on the Apple TV and stuff like that.

And, you know, videos that weren't very long,

I mean, I don't even know how long they were,

maybe five minutes, but just because of my computer,

it would take like five hours to render the video.

So I would just start it up and go to sleep.

And if I woke up the next morning and didn't like it,

I'd have to do it again.

And now that I have an M2-based Mac mini,

I start it and it's done in like five minutes.

I mean, there's a huge difference

between five hours and five minutes.

And it's enough that I can render it.

And if I don't like it, I can just go back and change it.

And, you know, again, it's not like we're gonna see

that much advances in the future.

'Cause although the M3 is better than the M2,

and I'm sure the M4 will be better than the M3,

but that shift to the new processor has been huge.

But, you know, I appreciate it just in terms of like

rendering time for video.

But what it also means is when the chips are

that much faster, it means that technology

can just do things that weren't possible before.

Whether it's a different type of camera

or whether it allows for really small products

like the AirPods in your ears to just do things

that they couldn't do before.

It allows them to have new features.

So it's a huge advantage.

And I think it's important for Apple

to be talking about this.

- Or even quickly, I'll just say AI, right?

I mean, everybody's talking about AI and, you know,

there's been a lot of advice in the video.

Exactly, they even addressed this in the video

that Apple is, everybody's gonna be kind of

on the sidelines saying, "Apple, what are you doing?

Like Microsoft is working with open AI

and Google has their own bard."

You know, all these other companies

are doing so much with AI.

And the reporter asked both John and Johnny,

like, you know, "How do you respond to that?"

And they both were like, "We're not worried."

Like, they're doing, I mean, I think, honestly,

Apple with some of these chips are even better set up

to accommodate what we are going to be seeing

in the next, I think, five to 10 years,

just in the aspect of AI.

And again, just from this video,

you get a sense that what they just said there,

they're not worried, it really prevails

across the environment, right, in their teams.

I mean, I remember distinctly in the video,

Johnny Sorochi even says, "We are leading.

We're not even a chip company,

but we are leading the industry in the processors."

And he just says it, like, without, you know,

smiling or kind of looking,

it's like, it's a matter of fact.

I mean, they know obviously what they're doing on this,

and it's just amazing.

Last thing quickly before we move off,

something that you and I have talked about

quite a bit as well.

One place where they are not leading,

and they probably would like to lead,

is in the modem aspect, right?

You've talked about this very good before, Jeff,

in the sense that we've been talking about the processors

that power the iPhones, the iPad, the Macs,

even the AirPods Pro,

but modems inside the iPads and iPhones

are a huge component, and the Apple Watch as well, right?

And it sounds like Apple is still having to rely

on, I think, Qualcomm, right?

I mean, you know a little bit more about this too.

- Yeah, now, I mean, Apple wants to make their own modems,

but Qualcomm makes the best ones in the industry,

and so far, it just looks, you know,

Apple has tried to make their own modems

without having to rely upon a third party like Qualcomm,

and they can't do it.

And, you know, the question is,

one of the things that was raised in the video is,

at some point, will Apple just give up and just say,

"Okay, you know, we're just gonna use Qualcomm forever,"

or are they gonna continue to try to come up

with a newer version?

It just goes to show you that this stuff's hard,

you know, making these incredibly small components,

this is difficult stuff,

and although Apple exceeds in many areas,

doesn't mean that they're gonna exceed in every area.

- Let's move from processing power to battery power,

a different kind of power.

But now you're spending money out of my wallet again, Jeff,

from a link that you had.

(Jeff laughs)

What is the MagSafe Duo Charger, right,

is the product that we've talked about,

I don't even think that I'll link to it right here,

but it's like the little tiny booklet,

I call it a little booklet foldout,

where I could charge both my Apple Watch and my iPhone.

I love it.

I've been using the MagSafe Duo Charger

for quite a while now, even when I travel,

but you link to a new product

from one of our favorite companies, 12South,

they are launching the Butterfly MagSafe Charger,

and it looks spectacular, I like this.

- It does, it folds up into a little tiny pocket

that can fit in your hand, so it's totally portable,

very easy to take with you when you travel,

but then when you unfold it,

one half of the puck can use to charge your iPhone

through MagSafe, - I love this.

- and the other half can charge your Apple Watch,

so perfect if you're traveling, you're in a hotel room,

you go to bed at night, you wanna charge your phone

or your watch for the next day,

you unfold it and let it go.

And in that respect,

it's similar to the product that you have,

although I think it might charge a little bit faster.

But then as an advantage, you can also take this,

and if you fold it up one way,

you can use it as something to prop up your iPhone.

Why would you wanna use that?

To put the iPhone in standby mode,

which we've talked about before,

which is just a great mode

that your iPhone's sitting over there,

providing you with useful information

while you use your computer or do other stuff,

or you can prop it up another way,

and it becomes just sort of a holder for the Apple Watch,

if your Apple Watch, for example, is a nightstand mode,

where it just displays the time and stuff.

So it's $130, I don't know if it comes with a USB-C cable,

you may have to provide that separately,

but it's just a nice little portable device

that looks like, I mean, frankly, this looks like the device

I think that Apple no longer sells

the one that we were talking about,

that you own the MagSafe charger.

- I know, yeah.

- But they do sell this product.

And part of me feels like Apple had the idea,

yeah, you can still buy it on Amazon,

even though it's not sold through Amazon anymore,

through Apple anymore.

But Apple came up with an interesting idea,

but I think 12 South took it to the next level.

And so whether you're looking for something for yourself

or a gift for somebody else for the holidays,

it's a little pricey at $130,

but it looks like it's really useful travel charger.

- This is, you're right, I was wondering

why didn't I have the link

to the MagSafe Duo charger from Apple,

because they don't sell it anymore.

- They don't sell it anymore, nope.

- But just like you said,

you can still get some of their stock from Amazon,

and it's $100, I think I paid a little bit more than that.

I think I paid, I think it was retailing for $129 itself.

So it's the same price as this 12 South.

But again, I love this thing,

it was so portable and I carried it.

But we talked about this, I remember before Jeff,

when I got my iPhone 15 Pro,

I didn't have a lightning cable in the bottom anymore,

right, it was USB-C.

This MagSafe Duo charger from Apple did not use USB-C,

it used a lightning cable.

So when I travel with this,

I still have to carry a lightning cable.

And that's one of the things

that really excited me about this butterfly,

other than the name is fantastic, of course, from 12 South.

But it does come actually with a USB-C power cord,

but you can use any USB-C power cord, right?

- Okay. - You can just plug in

and travel with that.

I mean, I've got to pre-order one of these

'cause I constantly use my MagSafe Duo charger,

both at home and on the road when I'm traveling.

And this just looks even better.

It looks a little more compact.

And the fact that I can prop it up,

like it's just genius the way they've done it,

where I can prop up my phone,

so I can use standby mode too, is really, really nice.

So good stuff on that.

More power.

Another thing you linked to today

was the Nomad 65 watt Slim Power Adapter Review.

This was a fantastic review, I think, from Justin Duino.

Love this.

This is great for traveling,

but it can also be useful for home too.

- Yeah, and what really amazed me about this

is that the device is just so small.

The use of, what is it, gallium nitrate, the GA,

the big G, little A, big N, these N chargers,

it allows you to have a very small,

it doesn't take up much space,

but it can provide a lot of power.

This one provides 65 watts.

So it's not a ton,

for something like a MacBook Pro or a MacBook Air,

it's gonna charge a little bit more slowly,

but for any portable devices, iPad, iPhone,

et cetera, et cetera, it's gonna be perfectly fine.

It's got two USB-C chargers for it.

I mentioned in my review

that I wasn't familiar with the Nomad brand,

and sometimes I get nervous if it's a brand, I don't know,

because some people make really cheap devices.

You and I were talking before we started to turn the camera

on, and you reminded me that Nomad is a brand

that's been out there for a while, so that's good.

So hopefully it's good quality,

and it's certainly a very favorable review here

that's linked to, as he says,

in one of the headlines you have here,

it's a charger the size of a Zippo,

like a little Zippo lighter.

So it's nice to have things that are small

and useful for travel or just carrying around.

- Yeah, and just so people know,

this isn't a battery pack, right?

So this is more of a charger that you would take with me.

And I did this, I did some research.

- You put it in the outlet and you put your cord into it.

- Correct, exactly.

And so this is going to charge your iPad,

charge your MacBook Pro, charge your iPhone,

or whatever other devices that you have.

But I did some research several months ago,

looking for one of these gallium nitride chargers, Jeff,

'cause I didn't wanna have, I had a brick,

a separate brick for my iPad, another brick for my iPhone,

and a big brick for my MacBook Pro, right?

So I didn't wanna carry three bricks with me.

So what I want, I slimmed it down.

I ended up going with an Anker 120 watt charger.

So it had two USB-C and one USB-A ports in there.

And that has been fantastic for traveling

because I can charge three items at a time.

Now, he does a great job in this article, by the way,

of the things that I ran into,

that when you have multiple ports in here,

even though this is a 65 watt power adapter,

you only get 65 watts

when you are just using a single port, right?

In fact, they even have it color-coded on here.

He does a great job talking about that too.

So, but if you have,

if you're charging both your MacBook Pro

and your iPhone at the same time,

neither of those are gonna get the 65 watts, right?

It splits it into, I think he says here,

45 and 20 watts here.

So that's not a big deal,

except if you need to charge it quickly, right?

And that's one of the reasons

that I went with a bigger wattage adapter,

because I wanted the ability to do fast charging.

And sure enough, I can tell when I plug mine in,

then it will do a quick charge

on my MacBook Pro or my phone.

In fact, again, the reviewer, I could hug him.

He's so good in this.

He said he used to travel with 130 watt power adapter here.

And he says, that was great, except that was heavy.

And mine is very heavy, I agree.

So this one, as he's talking about the 65 watt,

is much slimmer, much less of a weight.

And frankly, if you're traveling

and you just need to make sure that, you know,

the power doesn't go down, this is a great option here.

It's not gonna do fast charging.

You'll have to wait a little bit longer,

but from a traveling perspective, it would be good.

He even also says in here,

this isn't something he would use at home,

'cause when you're home, you know,

you can have a big brick, you know,

sitting on the side there and that's fine.

But from a traveling perspective,

I think I might have to go into this,

because I've run into the fact that my anchor 120 watt

is so heavy, sometimes Jeff, it'll fall out of the socket,

'cause it is so big, right?

But this one, you have to look at the picture here.

It's very slim and it kind of fits flat against the wall

in the power outlet there.

Really a fantastic option here.

I mean, I'm very tempted about this.

So now I've got to buy the butterfly from 12 South

and this one as well, but good stuff on this as well.

Let's keep going on some battery power.

Now, like I said, those were like charging capabilities,

but another story you'll link to

was about the best MagSafe battery packs in 2023.

This was a good rundown as well.

- Yeah, we've talked about this in the past

because I have, I'm holding in my hand here,

the, what Apple, speaking of things that Apple used to sell

and they no longer do, their MagSafe battery pack.

And again, it's lightning on the bottom,

so Apple doesn't sell it anymore

because they want to move to USBC.

But I often have found this useful when I'm out and ago,

I know I'm going to be recording video

or doing something that's very intensive,

maybe in an area with poor cell coverage,

and I know it's going to draw a lot of power.

I just take this little thing, slip it in my pocket.

It weighs basically nothing.

I barely notice it.

And then if I need some extra power,

it's so easy to just put it on the back of the iPhone

and get extra power instead of plugging a cord in

that connects to another device.

And then you get cords all over the place

and you're tripping over, you know, it's a,

so I love the form factor of a MagSafe battery pack.

And this review does a nice job of sort of rounding up

a number of the options, including the old Apple one,

which you can still buy on Amazon

and some other options by other companies.

Now I will say since, and I alluded to this in my review,

since I updated to the 15 Pro Max,

just because it's my first Max phone that's bigger,

it has more battery in it.

And even when I push this thing to the limits,

so far I have yet to get it to a day

where I've run out of power at the end of the day.

So the few times that I've taken this with me,

it's been totally unnecessary.

I guess it's still an insurance policy,

but regardless, you know,

you know if you ever find yourself in situations

where you need just a little more power

at the end of the day,

and I think this is a useful product to consider

for those situations.

- I remember watching a YouTube video not too long ago

where somebody was showing the MagSafe battery pack

from Apple and they said, this isn't like a charger,

this is just a topper, right?

It just tops off.

And I think we've related to a story from David Sparks,

you know, from the past, right?

Where he said something similar.

- Yeah, it'll just get you to those last few hours.

- Yeah, just the last few hours.

But some of these are really some heavy duty other ones.

Like he doesn't even mention the Apple MagSafe.

And the only thing that I would say, Jeff,

I don't know if maybe it's improved,

but you know, I've used some non-Apple branded

MagSafe chargers before and they work okay,

but they don't have all of the features

built into the phone, right?

Like it shows the circle there

and I can see how much power is in it

even when I'm not, you know, have it plugged in.

Maybe some of these newer ones there,

'cause he's got several here from Anker and Belkin

and some of these others that I think would be,

I'm sure really, really good.

But again, I don't know if you're gonna be

sacrificing anything.

I really just wish Apple would update

the MagSafe battery with USB-C.

- I really thought that they would.

I figured it wouldn't come out the same time as the iPhone,

but I thought that maybe just before

the holiday buying season, then Apple would update it.

And here we are in December and they haven't done so.

Maybe they'll do it next year.

I hope they do, 'cause to your right,

the Apple product had just those extra little features

that the third party products didn't have

that made it really nice.

So we'll see.

- I feel like I've got the iPhone 15 now with USB-C.

If I get the butterfly from 12 South,

I can get rid of the USB-C on the MagSafe Duo charger, right?

If I can get rid of this battery, MagSafe battery

from Apple, that isn't any more lightning.

And then I just got to upgrade my AirPods Pro, right?

Then I would be on USB-C.

We talked about this and I'm so frustrated

'cause I have to spend more money

to upgrade everything to USB-C.

I know it'll be worth it in the end,

but wow, you know, Christmas is getting

a little hard on the wallet right now.

Okay, speaking of the iPhone 15,

how about another review of the iPhone 15 Pro Max?

A lot of these came out months ago, a couple of months ago,

but you know what, Stephen Hackett,

I mean, we got to give him some screen time

because this is always some good insights

that he provides here.

- Yeah, Stephen Hackett, he's got a number of podcasts

and websites and stuff like that.

He knows what he was talking about.

Sometimes I enjoy reading these reviews

that come out a couple of months after the product

because it means that the person has had time

to reflect upon what parts of it useful.

So part of this review,

it's just the same sort of standard review

of an iPhone 15 Pro Max that people like me

were writing months and months ago.

But he also provides a little perspective here.

You know, he talks about how this is the move

towards Apple having USB-C,

which you just talked about 10 seconds ago.

I mean, Apple's now in that world of everything USB-C.

He talks about the 5X camera,

which is nice, that telephoto camera.

But one of the things he mentioned at the end

is that when Stephen Hackett has a huge collection

of Apple products, he's got some of like the Apple products

released in the 1980s, 1990s.

He basically has a little mini museum in his house.

You've got some pictures of it here.

And so he's a sort of person that thinks about

where a product, not only is what is it gonna do today,

but where does it fit in the big picture

in the timeline of Apple?

And he points out that there have been some iPhones

over the years that are iconic enough

in their design and features that people in the future

look back with them and say, you know, that was a good one.

And I feel that way about things like, I mean, of course,

the original iPhone was so groundbreaking

in what it could do.

The iPhone 4 was the first one

that sort of had the flat sides,

which was really nice for holding it in your hand.

The iPhone 5 was the first one with the tall screen.

I actually think that there's a chance that this design,

the iPhone 15, I think this one might go down in history,

years from now, that people will look back and say,

this was a really good one.

I mean, the use of titanium means that you can get a lot,

it's lighter, even though it's just the same size as before,

which is groundbreaking.

I really like the flat side

with just sort of the slightly soft edges on it.

I think, you know,

Apple always tries to come up with new designs every year.

Some designs are better than others,

but I agree with him that this might be a design

that years from now, we look back and say,

gosh, remember how good that iPhone 15 was?

I really think it will be.

- That's excellent.

Yeah, good review.

We'll make sure that we'll link to it.

If you have a brand new iPhone

and you've upgraded to iOS 17,

you might want to take advantage

of the new name drop feature,

which we saw kind of highlighted back even in the summer

with some of the new features coming in iOS 17.

They didn't have it at the first 17, I think,

or maybe they did.

Anyway, it's out now,

especially if you've even upgraded to 17.1,

but there's some really good stuff in here

and how I've used it before and I love it.

You just basically tap the phones together

and you can trade contact information that way.

- Yeah, I mean, the article that you're showing

from Joe Rizignol, Mac Rumors,

talks about when iOS 17.2 comes out,

which I'm pretty sure is gonna be next week.

I think we're a few days away from it

because the beta version

is now on the release candidate stage,

which usually means that we're just days away.

So my guess is that on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week,

we are gonna see iOS 17.2.

And one of the features it adds

is the name drop feature is the one

where you can take two iPhones

and put them next to each other

and just leave them for a second

without doing anything else.

And something will pop up on your screen

that says, "Do you wanna share your contact information

"with the other person?"

And you can share just yours,

you can just get theirs,

you can do it both ways.

It tells you what's being shared.

It's like the digital version of sharing a business card.

But what the article from Mac Rumors reports

is that starting next week,

in addition to sharing a digital business card,

you'll be able to share some other things

like boarding passes, movie tickets.

You know how many times one person

might have all the boarding passes or the movie tickets

or the theater tickets on their phone,

and then you wanna just take one of those passes

and share it with somebody else.

And apparently that will be possible.

You'll be able to take something in the wallet app

on your phone and share that pass

with somebody else's phone and transfer it.

So I haven't seen this in action yet.

I didn't even hear about it until just yesterday

when I saw this article, but bravo.

I mean, I think that's a great idea.

So I really look forward to seeing how this works.

- Yeah, I think I had two links here

that we were talking about,

but I like this one about doing the Name Drop feature

and sharing your contact information.

You gotta make sure, this all happens over AirDrop, right?

Which is a technology that's been around for a while.

But one of the great things about this article,

and I'll make sure it's in the show notes here,

is that in order to use Name Drop,

you gotta have the proximity sharing turned on.

You gotta make sure that you can receive

information from AirDrop.

Sometimes I've turned this off

because I'm in a strange location

and people are trying to AirDrop things to me

that I don't know, right?

So sometimes you say you just wanna limit it

to only your contacts, that kind of a thing.

But if you walk through this story here,

this will give you a good overview

of how you can make sure that you do have Name Drop set up.

And it's really neat when it works.

It's just your screen kind of melts

and it does a wobble and then you can receive it.

- It is a fun effect, yeah.

- Yeah, it really is cool on that.

Also with 17.2, you linked to a story from John Gruber.

We might see finally the demise of the name of iTunes,

something that's been around for many, many years.

This doesn't surprise me, I guess,

because even for those of us that are using Macs,

we don't even have iTunes software on the Mac anymore.

That was a couple of years ago that we did away with it

and all the tools that we used to use within iTunes

were kind of melded into other apps

or into the actual Finder.

There's a music app now instead of iTunes.

I think there is still iTunes software

available on the windows.

- There is.

- But it's just because it's the legacy aspect on there.

But John Gruber reports that when 17.2 comes out,

even the Apple TV shows is gonna have iTunes movies

or iTunes shows on there any longer.

Might be the end of the road for the iTunes name.

- Yeah, the name is going away.

And in the future, if you want to purchase or rent a movie

or a TV show on an Apple TV,

instead of doing that in a separate app

that has the name iTunes associated with it,

you will just use the Apple, the TV app on the Apple TV.

- Right.

- So that's where you'll find that in the future.

But yeah, and when this happens, Brett,

I think you're right.

Unless there's one I'm not thinking about,

I think the only one left

that will still use the name iTunes

will be the Windows software

that you use to sync an iPhone with Windows.

So maybe Apple will keep that out there

or maybe eventually they'll change that too.

So it's the iTunes name is at a very, very long run.

You know, using an I in front of a word

was something that started way, way, way back

when in the 1990s with the iMac.

And for a while, everything Apple had an I in front of it.

- Right, right.

- Including for example,

although the Apple Watch is called the Apple Watch,

the theory was that when it was in development,

Apple internally called it the iWatch.

And I'll always remember that one of the earliest,

one of the earliest interviews of Tim Cook

is that he slipped and he called it the iWatch

and then he corrected himself and called it the Apple Watch.

That was a long time ago.

But you know, Apple now likes to use Apple

and then the name.

So Apple TV, Apple movies, Apple photos, Apple whatever.

And they no longer have the I,

but iTunes is still around

and they're getting rid of that one too.

And of course the I in iPhone,

that name was so iconic that I don't expect Apple

to ever change the name to Apple phone.

I think it will be called the iPhone forever.

That'll be the one place that the I will stick around,

but we'll see.

- Or maybe the Apple pad.

This doesn't work, right?

If you have an Apple TV,

you had a link to a new app that could come to the Apple TV.

- This is cool.

- The Zoom app.

Yeah, I wanna know, what do you think about this?

Obviously you're pretty excited.

- I am because I have used this continuity camera

on FaceTime on an Apple TV.

And it's so cool because what you do

is you take your iPhone, which has a really good camera

and you put your iPhone right in front of your television.

And of course it works better if you have like

a little stand and I've reviewed one in the past

from I think the company name is Belkin that I use.

But however you prop up your iPhone

so that the really good camera on the back of the iPhone

faces you and so it captures you,

it becomes your video camera.

And then on your screen,

you see the other person you're talking to

and it works really, really well.

It's just like you're looking straight at each other.

So that's in FaceTime and it's been around for a while,

but Apple has opened up this feature, continuity camera,

to other third parties.

And so now Zoom, which of course is one of the biggest folks

when it comes to video conferencing,

Zoom is gonna have, or they've just released an Apple TV app

so you can have a Zoom conference.

I use FaceTime at home, but I mean, if you're a business

and you have like just a screen

that you use for video conferencing,

you can just prop an iPhone

and you're gonna get better quality

than I'm sure expensive office video cameras.

And you're looking right at the screen

and because the iPhone is right in front of the screen,

it's like you're looking at the people you're talking to.

You know, if you haven't had an opportunity

to use continuity camera for video conferences yet,

this is, it's a really, really nice feature.

So it works great in FaceTime

because it's the same technology.

I'm sure it's gonna work great on Zoom as well.

Hopefully it'll eventually come to Microsoft Teams

and some of the other players

in the video conferencing market, but this is great.

- It sounds like a project for the holidays

because I mean, I know most of the people

that I would talk with, you know, family-wise

over the holidays are probably gonna use FaceTime

and I haven't even tried it.

I know, I remember you've talked about this before,

but I wanna try the FaceTime, but like you said,

now for Zoom, I mean, you know,

I got people that aren't necessarily available

to get onto FaceTime, right?

I could talk to friends and everything this way through Zoom.

Okay, now I'm excited about it.

This is really good.

Where are you at segment?

You know, we've talked about using AirTags

in different places and not only us,

there have been police departments,

law enforcement have said,

AirTags are great to be able to track stolen cars.

Well, now maybe something even more important,

we can use AirTags to track jackets.

What a great story this is today, Jeff.

- I had never even heard the name Canada Goose.

I'm sure many people that are listening

know exactly what a Canada Goose jacket is.

Apparently they can cost over a thousand dollars,

but they are popular enough that they are being stolen

in Washington, DC in such numbers

that the police decided to tell people,

"Hey, just stick an AirTag in your jacket

so that if somebody steals it,

you can try to find it again."

So it's just an interesting idea.

I mean, I guess, so last month it was cars,

this month it's the jacket.

What are the Washington DC police gonna tell us next month

to stick an AirTag inside?

You know, I don't know,

but apparently this is their solution

is you put the AirTags in there

and we'll find it when it's stolen.

- Yeah, I feel like we talked about AirTags

as like almost a must have for last holiday.

And it seems like they're back again, Jeff.

I mean, you can get a four pack now.

Like what did we talk about?

If you get it down to like 82, 85, $82 or so,

like it's almost a no brainer.

Like get a four pack of these and just have it around.

Again, I started putting them in, not just for traveling,

but in like my wife has one in her purse, for example.

I mean, if nothing else,

I think what a lot of people are doing

is just using it as a deterrent, right?

If law enforcement is out there telling people,

hey, use these, then obviously other people are listening.

They're maybe saying, well, I don't mean,

maybe I'll think twice about stealing something

because I could easily be tracked in that.

They even also mentioned, by the way,

if you don't use an iPhone,

you can use a tile tracker for kind of the same thing.

But AirTags, we just know work great.

It saved my bacon a couple of times.

I know it's done as yours, especially on the travel side.

And then another quick where you're at,

a story you linked to, yet again,

Apple Watch fall detection helps a hiker get help

after a near fatal fall.

This was a little scary.

Gentleman had his dogs.

They started running after a coyote.

They dragged him along.

He broke his leg.

And thankfully the Apple Watch,

he couldn't get to his phone,

but the Apple Watch called emergency personnel for him.

- Yeah, this was the thing.

I mean, he didn't expect to be drug off the road

by his dogs, but you can see how you're happening,

how that could happen and for him to be injured.

And then suddenly he's in a situation

where he can't even get to his iPhone to call for help.

And he was so thankful that his Apple Watch

automatically did it and got him help.

Because as this story points out, just a month earlier,

somebody else had been hiking in the same area

and actually had died because nobody knew about them.

So, I mean, it shows you in a very real world.

I mean, it's the same type of story

that we talk about all the time.

Maybe this one was a little different

with the dogs pulling you off the trail because of the coyote.

But it's the same idea.

You find yourself in a situation

that you never expected to be in

and thank goodness you can get your help.

So, more of that technology from Apple for finding people.

- Yeah, this was...

What I like about some of these stories that you linked to

is that it's typically a little news segment

from like a local news television station.

And so it's one thing to read the story,

but it's another thing is you're talking,

it's to see the actual person and talk,

like even see their dogs.

I mean, it's just to be able for them to talk about it,

you know, themselves is I think a little bit more powerful

on that, which is great.

- I'll tell you one more thing about this

find my stuff before you move on.

I was sort of chuckling to myself last night

about something that my daughter told me.

You know, I think back to the 1980s,

you know, when I was younger,

you know, it happened to be in the 1980s,

but the same story is true if it was,

if you were younger in the 90s or the 70s or the aughts

is, you know, we used to go ride our bikes places.

My parents had no idea where we were.

You know, if somebody stole my Canada goose jacket,

nobody knew where it was.

You know, that was just,

but we live in this day and age with find my.

So last night I was picking up my daughter from school

and I was on one part of the school campus.

And it turned out that my daughter was

on a different part of the campus.

And I got, I was confused,

but when I find she finally got in my car,

the first thing she turned to me and she says, well, dad,

why didn't you just use find my to see where I was?

And I just had to laugh to myself that we now live

in this day and age where, you know, the kids,

well, of course you should know where I am dad.

You should have just kept on find my.

And I'm like, my goodness, we have come such a long way.

So anyway, that was my story.

- Good stuff on that.

One last little video you link to,

which I always love at the bottom, you put something fun.

This is a new video from Apple called album cover,

which at first I was like, okay,

they're going to talk about,

this was a new feature, right?

In Apple music that you could design your own Apple cover

for music.

And I'm like, okay, I got it.

I know it.

- That's not what this is.

- This video, I'm not going to give anything away,

but the video is really highlighting some

of the powerful tools in being able to modify a picture,

which I think again, just goes back to the fact

that we can even do this in real time.

The way that this little video is showing is a testament

again, to the processors, right?

The fact that we have this much power,

graphical power, even inside an iPhone

that we hold in our hands and they can do all

of this things in this video.

It's just really amazing, but it's a funny video too.

- It is.

And I don't want to spoil it either.

Folks that haven't watched them yet.

It's just like a minute long.

It's got a little twist,

about 30 seconds in that'll make you laugh.

- Well worth it.

In the know, one of the things we've talked

about several times I know is the,

what Apple now calls the quick actions on the iPhone.

I think at one point, if I'm not mistaken, Jeff,

this was called like 3D touch, right?

Was that maybe like the old app,

iPod touch or the old iPhones,

and then they've improved it.

And so now it's called quick actions.

And what this is, is on your phone

and most people probably know this

and at least take advantage of it to some extent.

If you tap and hold your finger on an app,

you will sometimes get a secondary menu that pops up

almost like a right click menu.

If you wanted to put it in that term.

Now you can tap an app and it opens, right?

And if you tap and hold for too long,

you go into what we technically call jiggly mode, right?

And that's when you can rearrange your apps

and that kind of a stuff.

But in the middle, you can tap and hold.

And as soon as you see the secondary menu come up,

you just let go.

And this works for a variety of apps.

And all of the Apple apps will do something like this.

And then some third, many third-party apps

will have some of these as well.

For example, you can touch and hold on the camera

and the quick actions come up about taking a selfie,

taking a video.

You can quick tap and hold on the notes app

to do a brand new note quickly.

It's just like a little shortcut, but here's one,

all of this I kind of knew and I know a lot of people know,

but one thing I did not use the quick actions for a lot,

Jeff, is the settings app, right?

The little gray gear icon.

You know, one of the things when I'm talking with people

all the time, they have issues with,

they wanna see what their battery life is, you know,

or they wanna see their wifi, what they're connected to,

or they wanna connect or disconnect a Bluetooth item.

Well, before I would have to tap the settings app,

go into there, scroll up and down,

'cause I'm never at the right place,

find the wifi, tap into the wifi, you know, turn it on,

all that kind of stuff, same with the Bluetooth.

But if you tap and hold on the settings app,

there is a beautiful series of four little settings

in the secondary menu.

You can go quickly to the battery,

you can go to cellular data, which I don't do very much,

but the wifi and Bluetooth, I love that.

I use this now almost constantly,

just from the very fact that when I wanna jump in

and see, did my AirPods connect to my phone?

I can just tap and hold on the settings app,

which is always on my home screen, by the way,

it's in my bottom right corner of my little dock down there.

So it's always accessible, right?

Tap and hold, and I could jump directly

to the Bluetooth capability, and it's right there.

And then sort of a sub tip quickly on this,

if you have trouble tapping and holding

and getting to the secondary menu,

Apple actually allows you to adjust the time

of how long do you wanna tap and hold on there.

And to do this, you have to go all the way

into the settings app this time,

you go to the accessibility functions,

you tap into touch, and then I think what they call the,

is it touch accommodations?

Oh yeah, touch, and then there's the haptic touch in there

is where I go, the haptic touch.

So there's many names here, the quick action,

but in order to get to the quick actions,

it's the haptic touch.

And then you can see there's three options,

fast, default, and slow.

And there's even a little item there

that you can test with right there,

so that you can see what is gonna be your preferred

haptic touch to get to the quick actions.

So that's my tip for the day.

- Yeah, I wanna start by saying a few things about this tip.

This is a great tip because it's easy to forget

that you can just hold your finger down

in the app icon and have these options.

On the settings tip, the one that you recommended,

what's so nice about it is,

if you just open the settings app,

it will typically bring you to where you were before,

which may have been like yesterday,

you were three levels deep in a menu.

And if you just wanna go to like Bluetooth,

like you said, a perfect example,

you gotta go back and back and scroll all the way up,

something like that.

Whereas if you just do this tip,

you can jump straight to Bluetooth.

And I'm gonna, just a couple more,

just to piggyback on your tip.

If you hold down on the messages app,

which is what I have on my home screen,

it will show you the people

that you text with most frequently.

And so rather than open the messages app

and then find their name and tap on their name

and then start texting,

you can just hold down for a second

and then select their name

and go directly into texting with them.

That's really cool.

Another one that I use is if you hold down

on the app store icon, it has a thing for updates.

And so if you know there's a new version of an app out,

and this is something that I've used

'cause I'm a little geeky.

I heard there's a new version of XYZ app,

I wanna make sure I get the newest version.

I hold down, do updates,

and then I can get the updates, which I like.

And then the last one is sort of fun

is if you hold down on the photo icon,

one of them that I see on here is called one year ago,

and it will show you pictures from not exactly a year ago,

like it'll go a day ahead or a day behind,

but it's just sort of a fun way of,

hey, what was I doing this time last year?

And it'll just pick a couple of photos and show it to you.

It's just sort of a fun little thing.

So my point is-

- I don't have that.

That's the photo app?

Is that the photo app?

- Yeah, that one doesn't show up

when you're in the photo. - Oh, photo app.

I'm just doing the camera app.

Photo app, gotcha, gotcha.

- Not the camera app.

- Okay, there it is. - The Apple Photos app.

- Got it, got it. - Exactly.

- Ooh, I like that.

That's so great.

- It's just sort of a fun little reminder from a year ago.

Some third-party apps support this.

Many of them don't, unfortunately.

I wish they all did.

All of Apple's apps do support it.

So I just want a second on that tip, and it's really good.

- Yeah, I know we've covered this several times,

but this is one of those- - Yeah, but it's so much fun.

- We'll give you goodies and good reminders, yeah.

- And it's a good reminder.

My tip of the week is something that I saw earlier this week,

and Brett, you may know something about it

because you were there.

I saw you give a presentation earlier this week.

One of the things, my tip of the week is not you, Brett,

but you happen to be secondary to it.

Brett, of course, you have a consulting business

and you talk with law firms all the time.

We had you working with our law firm earlier this week

and doing some iPad training, and you're great.

But the tip is that something that you happen to do

that I haven't seen before,

how many times have you seen a person

talking with slides behind them?

That's every PowerPoint presentation,

every keynote presentation.

Sometimes they'll be fancy enough

to have an object on the left side of the slide

that when they advance,

will move to the right side of the slide,

like simple little animations.

But one of the things that I saw you do, Brett,

to give you a compliment that was really effective,

is you had a couple of slides

that while you were talking about a topic,

when you advanced to the slide,

the slide automatically, full screen,

started showing the video without sound of something.

And so, for example, you were talking about

the introduction of the iPad,

and it just happened to have behind your head,

Steve Jobs on stage,

talking about the iPad introduction back in 2010.

And I thought it was a really effective

presentation techniques.

As many presentations as I see as a lawyer,

I go to continuing legal education all the time,

but we all see presentations all the time.

I so rarely see somebody

when they advance to the next slide,

just have full screen video behind them.

It's just sort of a secondary thing.

And like, the audience is still listening to the speaker,

but that video is there,

and it's something interesting to look at.

You don't wanna do it for every single slide,

but you did it a couple of different times

during the presentation, Brett.

And I wanna give you some kudos,

because I actually thought it made your presentation

much more interesting.

And so my tip is,

if any of you are doing presentations in whatever context,

and you just wanna spice up your presentation a little bit,

have some full screen video behind you,

just something playing,

while people are listening to you,

it spices up the presentation, it's really cool.

And I saw your presentation,

and then I was thinking about this afterwards,

and it just, you know,

how something just gets into your head.

And so I went to Google and I just did a search for,

you know, video, slide, presentation, PowerPoint.

And there were many people on YouTube

that were showing off how you do this in PowerPoint,

how you do this in Keynote.

So apparently it is something

that good presenters know how to use,

but I had never seen it done before this week,

and I thought it was really effective.

So that's my tip.

If you're giving a presentation,

you wanna spice it up a little bit.

And I guess I'll ask you just to peek under the curtain,

when you were doing your presentation, Brett,

were you using Keynote for your slides?

- I was, yeah.

- Okay, and so-

- I like both Keynote and PowerPoint,

but I think Keynote's a little superior.

- Yeah, I use them both depending on the context.

Yeah, it just depends on what I'm doing.

And so when you did it, Brett,

I presume that you just took a video file,

you put it on the slide,

you made sure that it was full screen,

and I think that there's an option,

is that like you click right on it,

and there's an option to begin the video automatically

when you get it to the slide, is that how you do it?

- That's right, exactly.

Yeah, so sometimes, you know, by default,

typically the video doesn't start

until you actually click, like the click the mouse button.

- Yeah, but you don't want that, right.

- But you don't want that,

but you can just go into the settings,

whether on PowerPoint or Keynote,

and you just say,

"I want it to start playing immediately

after the transition."

The transition being from the last,

you know, the previous slide, and to go.

But yeah, there's all kinds of ways

that you could use this really effectively.

And you know, I really appreciate that so much, Jeff,

thank you.

But it's just that having that visual appeal to it, right?

So that people are still listening to you,

but today we're just so inundated, you know,

with so much, you know, bombardment

of like different visuals and stuff.

It's good to have something to keep people's attention

a lot of times too.

- Yeah, great, great, great, great little feature.

- Thank you.

And by the way, I was using Teams on that,

Microsoft Teams to give that presentation.

You know, we were talking about Zoom earlier,

and I would just say,

and I think we talked about this just a little bit,

but Teams has this really nifty little presenter mode

or layout mode.

I know you've used some of this as well.

I don't think this has come to Zoom yet,

maybe in some beta versions or so,

but this has got to come to Zoom.

'Cause it gave me the ability to like,

I was a little picture,

I wasn't like a separate picture video, right?

With my content on the side.

I was talking in front of my video,

but I was in the little corner down there.

You know, similar to what you might see if people like,

you know, weathermen or something like that, weather people,

you know, if they're like doing a weather say,

but there's different modes that you can do within Teams.

And I had just never used it,

but I thought it was really effective and really neat there.

And I think more and more people would do it.

You've used other apps like,

Mm-hmm, right, or something like that too.

- In the past, but this Microsoft Teams,

anyone that's listening that uses Microsoft Teams

in their office,

this just came to it a couple of months ago.

And it works.

So what we're talking about here is you have your slides

and instead of your slides taking over the screen

so that people can't see your face,

what you can do is you can have this mode

where your face appears on top of the slide.

That is called the,

that's called I think standout mode.

But then there's another mode called reporter mode,

which is when your slides are in sort of a box

and you see this for every news report on television,

where the slides are sort of smaller

in a rectangle beside you.

And then you're right here

so that people can see your background.

So standout mode, it cuts out your background

and it works really well if you have a green screen,

but you don't need a green screen.

It works even without it.

And then recorder mode.

But these are things that,

although they've been in Microsoft Teams

for a few months now,

I have used it when I've done little internal presentations

in my law firm.

And then people come to me and say,

wow, that's, you know,

how did you do that fantastic feature?

And I'm like, I pressed a button.

There's nothing to it.

You just have to know that it's out there.

So- - Give the secret away.

- So that's a little bonus presentation tip,

is if you have Teams, you can do this.

If you have Zoom, I don't believe it's built in yet,

but there are some third-party apps

like the one called Mm-hmm, which is M-M-H-M-M,

which will do something similar.

So yeah, another cool little presentation tip.

- Great stuff.

Wow, like multiple tips.

I love it, Jeff.

And thank you so much for the kind words.

I really appreciate it.

Wow, okay, a couple more weeks before Christmas,

so we're gearing up for everything there.

And hopefully by next,

we were hoping next week we could talk about 17.2 this week,

but not yet.

It's not out yet. - Yeah.

- Maybe by next week, we'll see. - I think by next week,

maybe we will, we'll see.

- Okay, we'll talk to you then next week, Jeff.

Thanks.