- Welcome to In the News for April the 4th, 2025.

I am Brett Burney from appsinlaw.com. - And I am Jeff Richardson from iPhone JD, and we are live here in Chicago. - Live from ABA TECHSHOW in Chicago.

So for those of you that may not know, ABA TECHSHOW is a conference, actually that's really where Jeff and I first started getting to know each other very well.

We presented together at this conference, and so it's sort of a little bit of a homecoming.

It's actually the 40th anniversary of this conference, and we thought, well, we're gonna be here on Friday, April the 4th.

We might as well try to record an episode of the podcast, which I just think is really fantastic.

We're actually in the big, huge cavernous exhibit hall right now. - Yes. - There's people you can probably hear, people walking by, or sounds a little bit different, but we're thrilled to be here. - We are at the McCormick Center.

Is that the name of it? - The McCormick, well, yeah, it's the McCormick Place, I think, in Lakeside Center, anyway, it's the McCormick Convention Center in Chicago.

It's like south of Soldier Field, but it's huge.

This place is humongous. - Number one, it's huge. - It's also-- - They have their own zip code. - It's also cool because the exhibit hall is so big and bright, but when you walk to the end of the exhibit hall, there's windows, and you look out, and you see-- - The skyline!

It's great! - The skyline and the lake, and it's really, really pretty, and so it's nice, and I love Chicago.

Chicago's a cool city. - It's been great. - And there's so many cool things about it.

I also think it's interesting, this is the 40th anniversary of the American Bar Association TECHSHOW, so when you think back, that would be, what, 1985, '86, whatever it was? - That's right. - You know, the mid-1980s, I mean, I was enjoying technology in the 1980s as much as I do today.

Of course, I was in high school at the time. - A little different. - So it's a little different, and I wasn't really paying too much attention to what attorneys were using, but that's just sort of funny.

So it's a lot of technology that has come out.

I mean, you think back in the 1980s, I mean, there were still Apple IIs, and the earliest PCs. - Yeah, I'm trying to remember, 'cause we've talked about this several times.

Like, my first computer, it was a Radio Shack TRS-80, fondly known as the Trash 80.

But what was that, would that have been, my goodness, I mean, I'm trying to remember now.

It could have even been, like, '83?

Something like that, I mean, it was a long time ago.

But I mean, I remember I would save my programs, of course, in BASIC, on, it was like a Radio Shack audio cassette recorder.

And it was cassette tapes that I was using.

I mean, that's the technology we were doing 40 years ago. - I had a Commodore 64, but it was connected to a printer made by Smith-Corona, the typewriter company. - Oh, my goodness. - Which meant that it wasn't a dot matrix, it actually had, like, a typewriter thing in it.

But what it meant is that I could use word processors back in the day when, like, teachers certainly didn't even know what a word processor was, which meant that my papers were perfect, there were no typos, 'cause the computer checked all that, and when I printed them out, they were perfect, and it was really nice.

And I used that in high school, I used that into my freshman year of college.

So we've come a long way, but I just think it's sort of funny that with TECHSHOW, in fact, tonight there's gonna be a party that has a 1980s theme. - It's a '80s theme. - I did not bring any '80s clothes.

Perhaps I should have brought my Jane Fonda workout tape or something like that, I forgot to do so. - I am confident there will be plenty of that tonight.

I almost brought my little headband with a mullet on the back, which would have gone well.

But anyway, there's gonna be plenty of fun tonight on that. - Indeed. - Well, I tell you what, we'll get back to some TECHSHOW fun and some sessions that we've been doing, because both of us have been talking, your session yesterday with the Vision Pro was amazing.

But why don't we talk about quickly some of the news that actually came out, because even though we're here, you still had a post today, Jeff, which is amazing, because a big release, we talked about this last week, was iOS 18.4.

And there were several stories that you linked to today, which are great, I mean, a lot of this, I don't think anything was a surprise, 'cause we've been talking about this for the last couple of weeks.

But it's finally out, I think right before I left, maybe two or three days ago, I updated my phone, my iPad, even my Mac, and my, I don't know, the watch.

We'll come to the watch in just a moment, 'cause you were talking about it was there, not there, and then back there.

But let's talk about iOS 18.4 first. - Sure, I mean, so many features, just to pick one to start with.

Apple News+ has been updated, it now has a food section, and it's really, really nice. - It actually is, I was laughing about it, but it's nice. - No, I had not installed the beta before on my iPhone or my iPad, so when it came out on Monday, that was the first time I had looked at it, and it's a beautiful, as you would expect from Apple, right?

It's a beautiful interface.

You can look at the recipes, it's got the ingredients on the left, it's got the instructions on the right, and it even have a mode that you can tap a button, and you can see a full-screen list of just your ingredients, where you can tap through things, so that if you're grocery shopping, you can tap the, you know, I bought the celery, I bought the carrots, whatever it is that you need, and then there's also a second mode that has, if you don't wanna just look at one big, long list of the directions for cooking, it will show you step-by-step, like whatever the first step in cooking is, that's on the screen, and then you tap, and then it shows the next step, so you can have your iPad, or I guess your iPhone, with the smaller screen, there in your kitchen as you're following through the steps to cook, and you know, when I look at this, of course you can use it on an iPad, and it would be fantastic for that, but it makes you think of this mythical device that supposedly Apple has in development that would be like the HomePod with a screen that would live in your kitchen and would give you your directions for cooking, and so that's like the interface, which obviously Apple is responsible for, but a cooking app is only good as the content, and again, I don't, you know, I eat food, I don't cook food, but my wife's an excellent chef, and she, you know, finds recipes on the internet all the time, and the sources that they come through, I don't have the list in front of me right now, but it's like all of these very well-known cooking sources. - Oh, really?

Okay, I didn't know that. - So they're real recipes that, and in fact, one of them I was looking at that was, it was actually a cocktail recipe, not a food recipe, but it said-- - You can cook cocktails, you're good at that. - That's the extent of my cooking, is mixing a good cocktail, and it said, you know, this came from, I don't know, eating well, like eight years ago or something like that, but I'm like, well, that's fine, because a cocktail that was published eight years ago is just as good as one I make today, so the content looks really good, you know, and again, that's just one feature, and that's just, one other thing, though, is just fascinating, and I put this in my post today, Apple News+, when it first started out, people were like, eh, you know, it's a big deal, but now they've got great sources of news, they've got the game section, they've got the food section, they've got sports, in many cities they have local news, you can find whatever topic is of interest to you, and you can favorite it so that, like, there's a section of the newspaper devoted to X topic, whatever, like, if you're interested in Apple, for example, Apple News, or if you're interested in, you know, running, you can have a running news section, and so it's actually come along, and that's just one of the features, I mean, if that was the only thing that was new, that would be pretty cool, you know, they have new features for photos, some of these are sort of housekeeping features, but there's a lot of, like, you can, you know, reorder things in utilities, and some filters that were in one part are now in another, it's sort of like, you're making it all, a little more, you know, working together and cohesive, trying to think of what is the, you know, oftentimes, Brett, the big thing, you know, we always joke, when Apple has an update with new emoji, that means that they're thinking it's ready for prime time, but I have to admit, I'm looking at a picture right now, of the new emoji, have we gotten to the point where it doesn't matter anymore?

Because, like, I guess maybe I would use the face with bags under the eyes, goodness knows I felt that way, and I'm wondering, but none of these strike me as, you know, changing my life that way. - Well, I don't know, you have a radish emoji now.

How often do you need a radish emoji? - It wasn't until they released it, maybe, that I realized how often I need a radish emoji.

I think the bags under the eyes is something a lot of people will see, but I just gotta say, I think I've mentioned this a couple of times, I've done some research on this and talking about it, you know, from my aspect, from eDiscovering, collecting, like, there is a whole process that people go through, like, all of these have to be approved, I know we laugh at it, but there's this whole lengthy process that they go through, people go back and forth in how it's created, and even to the point where some of these now are created from, like, multiple different emojis, and they kind of string them together, anyway, it's just fascinating, if you've ever wanted to go down into the world of emojis. - We should say that Apple-- - Emojipedia is a good place. - Yeah, Apple does not pick these emojis. - No, no, no, exactly. - Emojis are picked by a consortium. - It's the Unicode Consortium. - That's right, that's right. - They have their graphical artists come up with their version of emoji, and that's why the emoji looks a little different on an iPhone than an Android, than other apps that have their own built-in packaging, front charts. - It is, it's a very detailed radish, I have to say, it's very nice. - But, you know, anyway, for those of you who, you know, you're text messaging with your spouse, the one thing you were missing was a radish, you're gonna love this. - The thing is, here's the thing, people will download it, they'll send it, and if you haven't updated, and you receive one of these, it won't show correctly. - Exactly. - And so, to your point, like, that's why Apple, I think, encourages this, like, hey, you need to update, because if somebody's gonna send, they're gonna try to send the bags under the eyes, if you haven't updated, you're not gonna see the emoji in the way that it's meant to be seen, and so you feel the peer pressure to update as well.

I think it's brilliant. - It makes sense, it makes sense.

They've also updated CarPlay, which I love all the time, but the big updates are things that I cannot use, because the big update is if you have one of these newer cars and have the big screen, and you've got the space for it, you can now have three rows of apps instead of two.

I just have an old Honda Accord that I bought with a small little screen, there ain't space for three rows of apps, there's barely space for the two rows of apps that we have right now.

So, other things like that.

There's also, there was an update, something about sports.

I don't see it listed on this particular article, but something about sports, sports can be shown in CarPlay too. - Oh, really? - I haven't had a chance to, I don't have anything up front yet.

But, I mean, again, it's a .1 update, so you're not gonna expect that much, but this .4 update has a lot more features than I expected.

One that's sort of personal to me is, I love my Vision Pro, and you can now have it that there's an app on the iPhone or on the iPad that is a Vision Pro app, much like you have an Apple Watch app.

And what's cool about it is, first of all, I can open up the app, and even if I haven't looked at my Vision Pro, it will show me in the app, here's new immersive videos from Apple.

So I will know, oh, that makes me wanna go pull out my Vision Pro and put it on.

But what I really like about the app is it is now so much easier if you want to share your Vision Pro with someone else.

Oftentimes, I'll see a cool video, and my son, he wants to see it, 'cause he loves this stuff too, he has a Quest, what do they call it? - Oh, the meta. - Yeah, the meta Quest version of it.

So he's very comfortable with virtual reality and augmented reality, but of course, he doesn't have the higher quality one like I do.

So there's a cool video, and I love it with this app, because with the app, I can just, from the app, say, okay, here you go, son, you have the ability to do it.

I can see on my screen what he's looking at.

The one thing that the Vision Pro has always done is, when you're watching content that's copyrighted, which is pretty much all content, it won't airplay that to my iPhone.

And so what I do is I have to sort of disconnect, and then he can see the video and I can't see it.

But what did not exist before Monday of this week is now when he's done watching the video and goes back to the interface, I can just tap a button and I can once again help him again on the iPhone and say, okay, swipe to the left, swipe to the right.

So it's, without getting into the weeds, suffice it to say, it's just so much easier to share your Vision Pro, and that's all because of this app.

So, and that's just the changes for the iPhone, really, really nice stuff. - I'm gonna get into it, 'cause I wanna get to a really important one.

But just real quick, we talked about this just a little bit last week, that I am so happy, 18.4 now gives me visual intelligence on my iPhone 15 Pro, which you already have on your 16 Pro, that came built in, but we didn't have access to it.

And so now I have the ability, if I swipe into my control center here, it's already in here that I can go into this visual intelligence.

And I was watching some video where, like, just amazing, the power that you've had.

I don't know, you said you didn't use it, you haven't used it all that much. - I don't use it that often.

It is cool, though, that you can point, you know, your camera at something, and it will use AI to tell you what it is.

I still see it, I mean, number one, you can use it today, that's all great.

What I am excited about this technology is I think it is a portal into the future, because we're gonna get to the point, whether it's a future version of the Vision Pro, which is the size of your glasses, or there's rumors that Apple might change AirPods to maybe put some sort of little camera on it, not so that you'll be, like, recording people as you're walking around with your AirPods, but so the AirPods can have a sense of the world around you, and if the AirPod itself could recognize things.

Meta currently sells the Ray-Ban Wayfarer glasses, which they have the ability, while you're wearing the Meta glasses, I haven't worn one yet myself, but as I've heard it described, if I am looking at a tree, I can say, you know, hey, Meta, or whatever it is, what is this object?

And it will say, that is an elm tree, or whatever it is.

But the idea is, I think we're moving into the world where our technology will have more of a sense of what's around us, and so to do that, you need to be able to recognize things and use AI.

So what's important about this technology is Apple thinks it's developed enough to start shipping it, but I'm far more excited to see what are they doing with, you know, what is the more mature version of this technology five years, 10 years down the road?

So I'm glad that you'll have a chance to use it now.

>> I know, finally.

>> And see what you think.

>> I get it on my 15 Pro, and that came automatic in my control center, but something else that I added to my control center today was I think, it's so small, but I'm really enjoying my brand new ambient music.

I call it my spa music, but this morning, I turned it on, we talked about this last week, and I enjoyed it immensely.

I didn't think that I would.

I feel like I'm getting a facial or something, or like a foot rub when I'm listening to this, but it's just so nice to have it on.

This is a brand new, it's really an app, is what I really think that it is, but it's just hidden, but you do have to manually add this in the control center.

>> This is the thing, so if you don't go looking for it, you're not going to have it.

>> You're not going to know.

>> So what you need to do is on your iPhone, you know how you swipe down from the top right to bring up the control center, and then there's an option there that you can, you know, I think there's actually a plus, that you can add things to the control center.

>> Exactly, you have to hit the plus, that's right.

>> Once you do that, you'll see all sorts of things that you can add, you know, your flashlight, if it's not already there, your alters and all the things, but one of the things that you'll see is it's four round circular buttons, and they are the four different ambient music themes, and so you've got the sleep one, which is just very calming sounds, you know, album name kept words, just that you can help you go to sleep if you want to listen to something.

It's not quite a noise machine, I mean, it's more than just, it's more than like static, it's actually music and songs, it's just very, very calm.

You have the chill one, which that one I think is very much like what you were sort of talking about, the spa music, you know, you just sort of chill out, it makes you feel good, that's actually one that I found very nice to have background music as I'm working.

The productivity one is the other one that I like, Apple calls this music for working on tasks, it's a little bit more upbeat, and again, these are actual songs on Apple Music, in fact, there's actually one or two of them that I was surprised, I expected this to be total background elevator music that I wouldn't really know, but there was actually songs in there that I recognize from like soundtracks and stuff like that, I'm like, oh, I know this song, and now I can see who the artist is and what the name of it is, and then there's also a well-being, so there's the four different ones that they have, and you can choose to add all four, you can just choose to add one, but I think it's worth talking about, Brett, because unless you go look for it, you're not gonna know it's there, and you might wanna have it, 'cause it's, I mean, sometimes it's nice to just have something in your ears, in the background, you know, if your brain is sort of only half paying attention to it, I find you can focus more on the task at hand, so that's a cool feature. - Well, you've talked about this before, just having some music without lyrics in it, and we've always had the capability to do that in Spotify or Apple Music, you can go find some kind of a playlist, but the fact that they allowed this to be put into a control center, it's just interesting, first of all-- - The placement's interesting. - I thought it was just gonna be one little thing in control center, but as you're talking about, it's four different ones, the last one that you didn't mention was well-being, that's the one that I actually, that I actually did, but did you know also, and I just saw this on a video, I think one of the links that you had to, if you tap on it, once you get into, once you add it to your control center, it has the playlist there, and so this one in well-being, the default is pure meditation, but if you tap on it, you actually have additional options there, and you can even pull from your library in there, so my well-being playlist can be pure meditation, it can be spa, so I'm not too far off with spa music, beats and breath, not really sure what that is, or pure calm, and that's just in the well-being, and then I could actually pull from my library, 'cause I feel like these are actually music playlists from Apple Music, they just kind of curated it here a little bit better. - So much so that while it's playing, like on my iPhone, I've got the island at the top of it, and so while I'm playing music in the background, it shows up in the digital island, what I call top, if I tap on it, it brings up something that, it looks like an app. - It looks like an app, exactly. - It's not an app that I could actually look at the app icon and launch it, like that way you have to launch the control center. - But if you go up, you can see it. - But it is really an app, you can see the album art, you can see the artist's name, and you can skip something, you can go back, so it works, imagine it's a subset of the Apple Music app that's just focused on Apple Music.

Anyway, enough talk about that, but it's a cool, cool new feature. - But it's nice, I mean, that's one of my favorite things this morning that I was enjoying so much. - You mentioned the Apple Watch, so that's another update.

This was interesting because everything's updated on Monday, the phone, the Vision Pro, the computer, the iPad, Apple Watch update comes out, and then it's instantly pulled. - Oh. - And so I went to go up, I'm sitting in my office on Monday, I'm like, "Oh, the updates are out, I'm gonna update it," and it's not available, but then about 24 hours later, it came back, and then it went away again, and then it came back, and when it finally came back on Tuesday afternoon, it stuck.

So there's regular updates, nothing really consequential.

There's one, I think, marquee feature, which I was excited about when I read about it, and then I realized I'm not as excited about it.

And the idea is, and we talked about the idea last week when it was previewed, when there were articles previewing it, the idea is that if you are in silent mode on your Apple Watch, you can, and you know, if you have an alarm go off to wake you up in the morning, it'll vibrate, but if you want something louder, you can make it so that the sound actually breaks through the watch, so that even if your watch is normally in the silent mode, it'll actually make noise to wake you up as an alarm.

But here's what I noticed.

It doesn't work the way that I use my alarm.

The way that I use my alarm is I will say, you know, "Hey, you-know-who, wake me up at 6.30 in the morning," right, and then that'll create an alarm, and it will go off at 6.30 in the morning.

But this feature is actually tied to the focus mode, which is people that if you put yourself in a focus mode of like sleep, and then you have that focus mode end at a certain time in the morning with an alarm, that's how it all works.

So if you already use that feature, good for you.

This is gonna be great.

But if you're sort of an ad hoc, and people, if you wake up at the same time every day, that feature makes sense.

I don't.

What time I wake up in the morning depends upon what I have going on in my office every day, how late I was up the night before, a million things.

And so I just set an alarm every night.

So anyway, the current version of this feature doesn't work for me, but maybe it works for you. - So that's the watchOS.

What about iPad?

You had one brief mention about iPadOS 18.4.

Apparently just a few little tweaks, nothing really big on the iPad. - The one big change that you'll see, and it's a change that you previously saw on your phone, is do you remember when one of the previous updates, I forget which number it was, 18.1, two, something like that, is they added the AI, Apple Intelligence, to the message, to the phone app, to the mail app.

And so when you first opened up your mail app, it by default says, I can sort your messages into, and I forget what the categories are. - Is it categories and a priority sorting or something like that? - Yeah, all this sort of stuff.

Do you have it still turned on? - I don't, I turned it off. - You turned it off. - I turned it off. - I did the same, because for two reasons.

First of all, I just didn't like the idea of Apple sorting my mail stuff. - I don't trust it all the way. - Exactly, in fact, I'd use something similar on some of my mailboxes, the same box, so I totally understand that.

But for me, it didn't even make sense, because my email, my primary email is my work email, right?

But, and sometimes I look at that on my computer, which is a Windows computer on Microsoft Outlook, and sometimes on my iPad, but just because Apple sorted it on my iPad or iPhone, it's not sorted on my work computer, so it's just too confusing. - Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, see. - Suffice it to say, if you like that feature in your iPhone, hey, good news, now it's on your iPad.

If you don't, then like me, when I first updated, I instantly saw, I'm looking at my mail right now, at the top of my iPad, it's like, hey, I've got things sorted for you, and I'm like, good for you, I'm turning this off right now.

And I turned it off, and that was the end of it.

So, but I will say that I'm glad that they updated it, even if I'm not a fan of that secret feature, because what it means is, the mail changes on the iPhone, Apple is trying to bring all of them to the iPad, because you want them to be in sync. - That makes sense, absolutely. - You want to have the same interface, to the extent, subject to the specific things for the iPad. - Last but not least, TV OS, new design changes for the Apple TV app.

I haven't had a chance to really look at this. - And I haven't, I literally have not watched my Apple TV since Monday, when all this stuff came out.

And I'm trying to even think what the changes are.

I know that there are little tweaks to the interface. - Oh, here's a big one, there's a large plus button for easily adding titles to your watch list. - Oh. - Larger plus button, okay.

Next to it is a big I for access, okay, just a few little tweaks on there, not just a whole lot.

But I feel like, and there was one other story just quickly.

You know, all of these things, some of these may be pretty small, but we're always good to make sure that we do update them.

Where was this?

I had a story here.

The security details, right?

I mean, these are important when it is a .1 update like this we say this almost every time, I know.

And it is important to make sure that you get this fairly soon after it is released, just because there are some security updates, some that they don't even go into a lot of detail on, right? - Yeah, and I haven't seen any reports, Brett, that there were any showstoppers this time, you know, things that are actively being exploited in the wild, but that doesn't mean that any of these things could not be exploited tomorrow by somebody, so it's always good to update.

And you know, that's actually a good transition into now we have 18.4.

This was a little bit more substantial of an update than, you know, some of the previous ones.

Between now and this summer, when Apple previews iOS 19, 18.4 won't be the last update. - Oh, you don't think so?

Okay, that's what I was gonna ask. - I mean, already they have a developer version and beta of 18.5. - Oh, okay, okay. - But my prediction is that 18.5, maybe there'll be an 18.6, I don't think there's gonna be anything major in those.

I think it's gonna be security updates, and I think it's gonna be bug fixes, and little more tweaks.

Now that the Apple design and developers, they have things out in the wild, they're like, you know what, we released this in 18.4, but now we're realizing we actually wanna tweak this a little bit.

I think that my prediction is that's what we're gonna see between now and the next major update of iOS 19.

It's not that we won't have more updates, we will.

I just don't expect to have a big feature list like we've had here.

And if I'm wrong, then people will be sitting here in May or June talking about it, but I really don't, I think this is probably it. - Yeah, I was confused because June, at the Worldwide Developers Conference, they'll announce iOS 19, but that typically doesn't get released until-- - September, yeah, sometimes even October. - We have time for some additional updates.

But then I was just thinking, we talked last week or a couple weeks ago about the fact that 19 may have some very big changes, like in the interface aspect on there, right?

So like you said, I think that underscores your point.

Like between now and September, we may just have maybe 18.5, maybe 4.1, or something like that, just some other minor things on there, but really looking forward to a big update, overhaul, in fact, I would say, maybe it sounds like, for 19. - Literally yesterday, I was walking around the Expo Hall 4 and somebody stopped me who sort of knows of our podcast. - They recognized you. - And they were actually, we were just sort of chit-chatting about computer geeky stuff.

And they were saying, what do you think?

Do you think that this interface, this new interface is gonna come out this summer?

And I think that it will from all the rumors, but it's a significant threat because people become so comfortable with your iPhone and your iPad. - You know where to go. - So there's change.

Even if it's a good change, it's a little disruptive, right?

And so you want it to be a good change, and you don't wanna have these major interface overhauls very often.

The last real big one we had was a long time ago.

We had like the new thin interface.

So hopefully, and Apple knows this, they know that they're not gonna just willy-nilly change.

They're gonna hopefully do it for a good reason.

I personally don't mind a fresh coat of paint and a new book 'cause I'm sort of like, this makes things exciting.

But I know some people just don't want things to change and hopefully it'll make everybody happy. - 'Cause then they have to relearn like the muscle memory and everything. - Muscle memory, right. - We'll see, we only have a couple of months.

Well, about three, two months until we hear what Apple has in store for the updates on that. - Well, I think that might be enough on 18.4.

Let's get back to the TECHSHOW just real quick.

I'd like to just run through.

We've got somebody we wanna pull on as a special guest real quick, but we had a great time last night going out to dinner with a lot of folks that either have known us or they were coming to our presentations at this show.

So the American Bar Association TECHSHOW is an annual TECHSHOW, a technology conference is where we are that we mentioned before.

And we've had a couple of presentations.

Both I had a presentation yesterday, you had a presentation yesterday.

I was speaking on using an iPad mainly for trial presentation.

Even though yesterday we were talking about preparings or we were even talking about going into all kinds of detail about the equipment that you need, how to collect your files from your computer, copy them over to your iPad, for example.

A lot of those things, great questions from the audience and people asking some good stuff on that.

And then today, this afternoon, we're recording this on Friday morning, this afternoon, I've got another session where we're doing like, we're gonna set everything up and we're gonna show people exactly how to do a presentation from the iPad.

And it's not just using a trial pad app, which is what you and I both know very well, but even like using PowerPoint, for example, or Keynote, to be able to show that and project it onto a screen.

And so that's been pretty exciting.

This is always a big hit with a lot of people that come here because we know we can do presentations from Windows PC or a Mac computer.

The iPad continues to be something pretty special that a lot of people like to learn about.

So that's what I'm doing today.

My co-presenter has been Tara Cheever from Lit Software who develops the trial pad app and the transcript pad app and the dark review pad app.

And those are really good.

So that's what I have been busy doing. - And I loved your session yesterday because again, you talked about a bunch of stuff, but you really did focus on the Lit Software apps, which, first of all, if you were an attorney listening to this podcast, you should definitely come to TECHSHOW one of these years if you haven't done it yet, because it's a great conference, and especially now that we're in the new digs here that I presume that we'll be using for years to come. - Yeah. - Fantastic.

And yesterday was a perfect example of it because you were up on there talking about how you can actually use apps like trial pad and transcript pad and stuff like that.

But since you had Tara who works for, she works for the developers, the co-founders of the company.

And so she was able to talk about some things that I had maybe even thought about.

She's like, "Here's a use case that we hear, "somebody calls me because they're getting ready "for a trial and this sort of thing."

And so it was great to hear her perspective because obviously she's heard all the war stories.

She knows the good, bad, and otherwise.

So it was a really good presentation and talking about that.

I love transcript pad so much, especially, you can not only, you can suck in your transcripts and you can have the questions and answers.

It's the only way that I wanna read a transcript for a deposition because it's so easy to read it.

And then you can tag things.

In the old days, I would print out the deposition and then I would highlight it with a pen.

But then like two months later, I'm like, why did I highlight this yellow?

I know that it's important, why is it important?

But now that I can use transcript pad, I say this is important because it goes to the issue of, if it's a car accident case, did they say the light was red or green?

To pick a simple example.

And this issue goes to what kind of damages they say they got, whiplash or whatever it is.

And so therefore, if I just wanna say, I wanna see just the testimony about why the product part failed, I can then bring up all of that testimony in transcript pad.

So I love it for that.

And then I'll just say one more thing about that app is it's cool now that you can actually sync video because more and more I'm having depositions where you have a videographer in there and you get the video and the app can automatically sync everything together.

And you can even make excerpts for trial.

And it's interesting, Brett, because sometimes you'll look at a transcript, black and white, you see a question, you see an answer, and it's like, okay, there's the matter of fact, question, answer.

And then you look at the video of the same thing and you're like, this guy's lying.

I can totally tell that this guy is lying.

We have people waving to us as we record here.

And so I love that.

But one app that y'all did not talk about yesterday, I guess we'll talk about it in today's session, but that I posted a review on iPhone JD this week is Fineline Pad, which is a fantastic app.

And it's funny because we're here at TECHSHOW and it was a few years ago, I was at TECHSHOW and I was talking to one of the other co-founders of that software, Ian O'Flattery, and he was like, Jeff, I have this new idea for an app of like having a timeline.

And I'm like, this makes so much sense because in so many cases, as a litigator, when things happen is so important.

If you learn about it before or afterwards, and you want to pull everything together just for understanding your own case, you wanna put everything into a timeline.

And then as I'm looking at the timeline, I can now start to, oh, so this is when they wrote the letter.

This is when this phone call happened and you see the big picture.

So just getting a handle in your case is useful.

But then of course, since the same company makes TrialPad, which is like the king of presenting evidence, once you have a timeline, if you're going to a mediation or you're going to trial or anything else, you can use that app to then show it on the screen and you can show the entire timeline, or you can say, I wanna have just this one layer that has like these events, just things that the plaintiff did on the timeline or just things the defendant did.

Or you can even have like, I just wanna have a little preset thing that's just showing this six month period.

And you click one button and it brings up just that six month period.

So it's a really well thought out app. - Wonderful. - It makes so much sense.

I mean, timelines are so important to lawyers.

So anyway, and I don't want this to be an ad for the company or something, but I wrote a big review this week because I was very excited about the app. - We like them a lot. - I can't wait to use it.

So anyway, so you had a good session yesterday. - Yeah, well I was gonna say, so I pulled up your review 'cause it's a great review.

I don't know how many other people have done some reviews on this because it is new, even though I do know, we have been talking with Ian and Tara about this app for a long, long time.

And I'm just glad that it's out.

And it's just so nice that you can do that right there on the iPad.

And anyway, just I'm pointing people to make sure that they go and check out your review and I'll put a link in the show notes on some of that.

Okay, so while those sessions are absolutely fun, you just knocked it out of the park yesterday with Kenton Bryce.

In fact, I'm gonna try to pull up a photo here.

I think I have your permission.

And Kenton, well you can't see his face because both of you had your Apple Vision Pros on your face as you're giving a presentation, talking to people and we were watching you.

It was just brilliant.

That was so fun to watch all of this.

You explain it and I'm gonna try to pull up this picture here. - So we were doing a presentation on the future of augmented and virtual reality for attorneys.

What is the technology today?

But perhaps more importantly, what do we see as being the technology that's coming in the future?

And so for a good part of our presentation, I just had my keynote slides and we were going through slides that we put together.

But there are parts of our presentation and a good example is, if you ever used a Vision Pro, one of the just mind blowing things is when you have a video conference with someone else because unlike a Zoom conference where everybody lives in their little rectangular window, you can have this thing called spatial video conferencing where you see the person's face.

It's an avatar so to speak, but it's actually looking at their face so you can see Michael Eisenberg. (laughing) And you can actually see them and it's almost like you're in the same room and you see their face, you see their hands and when I've had these conversations, for the first 30 seconds, you're like, oh, this is cool technology.

But then the next thing that you know, it's just like you're sitting in a room together unlike a Zoom call.

And I really think it's gonna change things.

So to show that to the audience yesterday, you can show it on the screen right now. - Look at that, I've got a picture pulled up of both of you right now. - I put on my Vision Pro, he put on his.

I was screen sharing, just like how you would share your iPad to an Apple TV that's connected to a TV. - Look at that. - I was screen sharing so that people that were watching could see on the big screen what was going on and it was really, really cool.

So it was a very, very cool session and I loved it.

Most people in the audience did not have a Vision Pro yet. - Yeah, there was only like maybe four or five that raised their hand. - But I think everybody knows that this is revolutionary.

Today's Vision Pro, as much as I love it, this is just the 1.0.

This is like the first version of the iPhone.

But in the future, we're gonna get smaller and better and stuff like that.

So it was a really cool session. - It was so good.

Your passion was just amazing and being able to talk about it.

But I mean, you went through so many great things about it.

Even like, not just the, to me, the aspect I think that was so immediate was the fact that you could have sort of like that Zoom call if you were, I don't even wanna call it a Zoom call, even though you were on Zoom because-- - Well, we were checking the Facebook. - Yeah, you had the idea that you could be in the room.

But you were even talking about how you could be watching a movie together through your Vision Pros and then you could like turn and see Canton and talk about the movie while you're doing it.

Like even though you're, you know, he's in Oklahoma and you're in New Orleans.

And it was just great.

And the fact that we could see it on the screen that you were seeing, even though it was a 2D representation, not the 3D version that you were seeing. - Let me say one more thing about the session.

And then maybe we can have people here if they wanna talk to us, people on camera, if they're willing to do so.

We'll see. (laughing) - Oh, sure. - You can do whatever you want, absolutely.

Yeah, come sit over here next to Brad. (laughing) But we have a special guest. - We do, yes. - Let me just say that the other thing about the Vision Pro that I really loved is as attorneys, we are often trying to persuade people with our stories.

And sometimes we do that with our words.

And sometimes we do that by showing pictures.

And then more recently, it's very effective to have like a demonstrative exhibit that maybe has a graphic or maybe has a video or something like that.

I do think that this virtual reality stuff is the next level.

And the reason that I know that is because, you know, you want to have passion in the people that you're trying to persuade, right?

And I know that if I look at a picture of my daughter when she was three years old, I'm like, oh, that's really, really cute.

When I was taking the plane up to Chicago here, I was just, I'm just sitting on the plane, you know, what are you gonna do?

And I just happened to find myself looking at an old video of my daughter's birthday party when she was three and looking at the birthday of my daughter, like it almost brought tears to my eyes, right?

'Cause it's like all these memories.

It was like, isn't this really cool?

And then you go to the next level with this, you know, virtual reality where it's 3D and it's immersive. - Right. - And it's so realistic.

And so we as attorneys, if you want to convince the jury or sometimes the judge, you know, showing the jury a picture, you can get some emotions from them, get on your side, showing them a video, next level.

But when we can get to the point in the future where you can actually have like, you know, it's cheap enough that you can get a dozen little, you know, glasses that are smart glasses, pass them out to the jury, you know, and have them do it.

I mean, the jury is going to be eating out of your hands.

So this is what I think is the future.

But anyway, that was the spectrum. - Let's bring on a special guest real quick.

So Michael Eisenberg is somebody we've both been on his podcast.

You're a practitioner attorney in the Washington DC area. - Representing veterans before veterans benefits bills. - Okay, thank you.

Sorry, it's like, we got to, you don't want to steal the spotlight as they say.

But I want to jump in on something that you're talking about Jeff.

You keep saying the word passion.

And the reason why I'm going to focus on that word is that the attorneys who use Apple products, which you guys talk about wonderfully on your podcast, have a passion for the machines that they use with their Apple products.

And I think that's really important because when you have, you know, sort of a stone wall, brick wall of, you know, working with Windows devices now and then, it's just more of a frustrating situation.

But when you have a passion for, you know, the materials that you're working with, with the equipment that you're working with, that shows, 'cause I mean, if you look at the excitement that you have about talking about doing a trial presentation, it's like, oh my gosh, it's such a joy to work with this stuff, that it becomes almost like a hobby and the work becomes more seamless in what you're doing.

And, you know, I think the word passion is the perfect word for attorneys who use Apple products.

I would encourage attorneys to use Apple products because when your life is just a little bit simpler, it shows.

And talk about passion.

Look at the array of Mac devices, of Apple devices we have.

We have an iPad. - Right here on the table? - Yes, we have two iPads.

We have an iPad with a keyboard. - We're recording with an iPhone over here. - Recording with an iPhone.

Actually, I did a presentation.

I did a presentation yesterday on attorneys using video to help generate their SEO.

I say that one of the best devices they have, probably in their arsenal already, is their iPhone, which may not be excellent.

It may not be TV quality, but it is good enough that you don't have to waste so much money on that type of expenditure. - Yes, yeah.

You know, I agree with you when you talk about that.

I mean, it's passion in terms of loving your products, but it's also feeling more comfortable using it because I talk to attorneys in my own law firm, and I'm sure this is true whatever walk of life you are, whether you're a doctor or whether you're a cobbler, but you want to be comfortable with your technology because that's what allows you to use it to the next level, to feel comfortable using it with a judge or with a jury.

And so if you are totally into the Windows ecosphere and you just love the Microsoft stuff, that's fantastic.

But Apple has already, I mean, that's always been part of the DNA of the company is to make things approachable and yet powerful.

And so I think that there is something there, and I totally agree with you.

And the attorneys that are comfortable with the technology, they're the ones that bring it to the next level.

And the judges, the juries, even just appellate attorneys, whoever it is that you're trying to convince on behalf of your client gets you those results because that's what it's all about, right?

It's confidence. - And let's make it kind of a simple analogy.

It's like using the right pen when you're writing something.

If you're using like a pen that's, it makes uncomfortable and maybe too thin, too thick, whatever, but when you have the right pen, you know, for Max, I have a Monk Lunk, I love my Monk Lunk, and it's very comfortable writing.

I have poor penmanship, but when I'm using this, it's amazing how-- - Great technology. - Yes, I mean, simple technology. - Today's episode is sponsored by. (laughing) - Feel free. (laughing) - So. - But, I'll let you go back. - Yeah, and I'll ask you one more question before we let you go, Michael.

You've been walking around the floor here yesterday, stuff like that, anything that you want to jump out, that scene that's been interesting on the floor, there's so much, but pick one thing. - The one thing I think is how everyone is integrating AI. - Absolutely. - And I think the important thing to remember about using AI is that AI is a tool.

It's not an answer.

It's not going to replace attorneys.

You don't have to worry about your job, but if you use it as a tool correctly, you're gonna get your work done faster, more efficiently, but always, always, always check your work.

I can't emphasize that enough. - Yeah, yeah, thanks for jumping in with us.

I really appreciate it.

Thanks for jumping in. - Absolutely. - Thanks, Michael. - So, Michael, I was just gonna be-- - These guys do the best job when it comes to talking about Apple products.

You're crazy not to follow.

Make sure you hit like and subscribe. - Thank you, Michael. - And I'm gonna do back at you there because, Michael, you can see I've pulled up the page here.

Runs the Tech Savvy Lawyer podcast.

Both of us have been guests on that. - I've listened to it. - In fact, you must have just posted something just yesterday, right?

You had a whole show that you, or it's a blog post.

It's not a podcast on there.

So, great, great, great blog as well as a podcast.

TheTechSavvyLawyer.page.

And you're announcing Tech Savvy Saturdays, right?

That was a brand new thing.

Come on, Pat. (laughing) Will it? - Sorry, I didn't wanna do too much self-promotion and steal the thunder.

So, every third Saturday starting next month, I'm gonna have a Tech Savvy Saturday where it's an open Zoom conference.

Everyone's invited.

I'll have a guest speaker talk about using tech and they'll give some examples live on air.

And then the second half will be sort of an open community triage.

So, if you have a tech problem or tech question-- - Like office hours. - Exactly, exactly.

But it'll be on Saturdays at noon on Eastern Time and I hope to see you there.

Thank you again, guys. - Thanks, Michael, appreciate it. - Bill, I'll see you over there, too.

Come over here, too. - Yeah, yeah, we have somebody else we wanna bring in.

'Cause actually, it's like our impromptu production specialist here coming on. - Bill Dance is the chief technology officer of my law firm, Adam Zaris, and we did not plan in advance to be here both at the conference or today.

It just so happened that I was coming as a speaker and you were coming to look at technology and so here we are today.

Bill, you and I were walking around the TECHSHOW floor yesterday.

Obviously, Michael just talked about the AI stuff.

That's something that we're thinking about very much as well right now, too. - Absolutely, I was in a session yesterday.

They said there's 525 legal products that specifically have AI added to it, which is just absolutely incredible.

They said by the end of 2025, there will be over 1,000.

And again, it's the tools, you gotta pick them.

The tools do all of the same things.

How many tools have we seen so far this week that just said document summarization, right?

It's a matter of getting the tool that works best for you. - Yeah, I feel like we're at the point where, and you see it on the TECHSHOW floor and the expo floor as you walk around, it's almost like if a product doesn't incorporate AI in some fashion, you feel like it's been left behind.

At the same time, though, I do have a concern of maybe it's too much.

Maybe people are just trying too much to do the AI thing when it's not really, we were joking about it as we were walking over here today, Brett, that I was in a session yesterday where one of the speakers was talking about how you can use, I think it was Microsoft Copilot is what Mitch was talking about. - Right, right. - And he was saying that you could use it to craft an email.

One thing that happens to attorneys all the time, it happens at our firm, Bill, is you'll get a random email that says, "I wanna hire you to do X."

And sometimes you think it might be a real person, but you want them to know, actually, that's not what I do.

It's not my practice area.

But you don't want them to think that maybe you are their lawyer from an ethics standpoint.

So you should respond and say, "Thank you for your email, "but I'm not gonna take this case."

Other times, it's just a spam thing, and sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.

And so Mitch was suggesting that you could use AI.

He would say something real quickly, and Copilot, Microsoft Copilot, would draft it into something that was a little bit more elegant to send as a message, which is good.

But the question that I asked him was the time that it takes you to use the prompts and tell the AI how to make the methods after.

But can you just write the two-sentence email in that much time?

Everyone's sort of joking about that, but I understand where he was coming from, 'cause his point is that you could get more consistency this way.

He was describing that you can actually have, and one of the things that many of these vendors that we're looking at, Bill, you and I were looking at this yesterday, was you can have a prompt for, "I want you to summarize these documents," and, for example, contracts.

For these contracts, I want you to tell me what they say about choice of law provision, the termination dates, whatever, and you could have a series of contracts, and the AI, without having to review them, will pull all that out and then put it into columns.

And then, once you know, this is the thing that I always look for in my employment contracts, you could save that prompt.

And so then, in the future, you click one button, it runs the same prompt on the same documents.

And what I liked about the one that, Bill, you and I were looking at yesterday, is if you don't, and it might not even have this feature, you look at what the AI does, you say, "That looks fantastic," and I trust it, because you always have to worry about hallucinations, and they have little things you can hover over, and it will actually show you the language, and if you click, it will bring up the actual document.

So I can say, "Oh, this comes from here," which is important, because oftentimes, the AI will get it right, but sometimes, when you look at the contract, you might say, "Oh, but you know what?

"The sentence before addresses something "that's also relevant to this, "and so now that I've looked at the source, it's good, "but it still saves me so much time "because I haven't read the full document "beginning to end, and then pull up the next one."

So I think that AI stuff, I mean, it's revolutionizing everything, but I do think in law, it's gonna be big. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Jeff, I have a question for you.

How big do the monitors need to be on your desk now?

Because I think the 24-inch ones are not gonna cut it.

Yesterday, we saw that on a 47-inch TV. - That's true, that's true.

Well, you know, the answer, Bill, is we just all have Vision Pros, and that way, we can have virtual monitors around us.

Bill, you're in charge of technology at my law firm.

Can you please buy Vision Pros for all of our attorneys?

Can you authorize that purchase? - I'll need to talk to our finance partner, Frank, on that one. - Okay, we'll see, we'll see. - But you know, just quickly, that was a good point you guys were making, you and Kenton Bryce in your session yesterday, is he had this huge Excel spreadsheet, right?

And typically, you could put it on a 32-inch monitor, you know, 27-inch monitor, whatever, but then you're gonna have to scroll horizontally.

And you guys were making the point that you could put it up inside a Vision Pro, and you can literally have it to where you can look back and forth.

And from the productivity standpoint, I think that that's important.

I'm not suggesting, although, didn't you say, like, one of your folks in the firm has-- - Our finance partner, who uses Excel spreadsheets all the time, has a 43-inch curved monitor. - I'm not surprised. - A curved monitor. - Because it is, it's exactly what he needs for his job, getting him the tech he needs for his job. - And you know, I was talking to an attorney about this yesterday, that it's useful to have, I mean, I remember years ago at TECHSHOW, people were telling me, Jeff, you need to have dual monitors, because you can get so much more work done, and you can have your email over here, and your Word document here, and you can see the contract, or you're writing about it.

And I agree with that.

In fact, I often do the same thing with my iPad.

I now have a dual monitor set up, but even before I had it, I would have my monitor and my iPad as a dual monitor.

Now I have three monitors, but what this attorney was telling me, and I agree with, is he's like, I don't like the fact that somebody comes into my office, and I'm behind all these monitors.

It's like, oh, I don't know-- - Yeah, there's a barrier. - How'd you do it over there? - That's right, yeah. - It's a little obnoxious.

And so, I mean, I know this is futuristic.

We're not doing this in 2025, but if we could get to a point where a future Vision Pro is as small as a pair of glasses, so that I could have a bunch of monitors, and yet still be approachable that somebody comes by, I could just swipe to the left, and the monitor's in that virtual space.

They're just sitting over here, and I'm having the conversation, and I swing it back in.

So again, I know this is a little sci-fi-y, but I do think it's coming.

I really do. - Yeah, yeah. - Because we know that having lots and lots of monitor space is so useful, and yet you don't always want it there.

So it's interesting. - Yeah, yeah.

Bill, anything else besides AI?

Although I know that's the top of mind for everybody, but any other things that you are excited about or interested in? - I'm actually excited about the new location.

Before, we were jammed in a hotel, and it was quite crowded.

The rooms were kind of difficult to find.

Now at McCormick Space, it is completely, you know, we're all spread out, and it's easier to go through the vendor selections.

They have more space.

It's easier to go up and down the rows and see that stuff, and the hotel's not that far away. - We have puppies.

Well, they're not here yet, but they had puppies. - Therapy dog.

I loved it.

It was full all day long.

People were over there petting it. - They know what they're doing. - Yes, absolutely. (laughing) - That's hilarious.

I like it.

You know, it is interesting that we are in this space.

You know, I should have had more pictures that we could have pulled up, but I'm positive you're gonna have a post, a post TECHSHOW post, that you'll have some other pictures or stuff that we could do.

But it is really nice, like you said, Bill, to have it, I mean, the fact that we can look out in windows and we can see the skyline, it's just really, really, really great.

Yeah. - It's wonderful. - Yeah, yeah.

And just real quick, I was gonna say, I alluded to the fact that we had a dinner that Jeff and I went to.

There was maybe, I don't know, we had about eight people, I think, that went with us, you know, from attendees, but you were there as well.

It was just great to see you. - Absolutely, yeah.

So, wonderful restaurant, and enjoying the good meal in Chicago. - It's really good.

Thanks for joining us, Bill, and thanks for, like, jumping in and being, like, our production manager. - Absolutely. - And for being here today.

It's great to see you, Bill, as always.

Yo, good, you have a picture.

See, you're gonna post a picture of the puppies. - I'll put it in my after tech notebook. - It was funny, 'cause last night, when I was walking back after all the things, they had, I was behind the puppies.

Like, they were walking them back to the car.

And they were some of the most well-behaved dogs I have ever seen in my life.

Like, I just wanted to, like, follow 'em and start petting 'em.

No wonder everybody wanted to be with 'em all day. - So cute, so cute. - Okay, so how 'bout, let's wrap it up for just a little bit.

But I wanted to mention, we both each have an additional session today.

We already talked about mine with the trial pad.

But your session this afternoon, I cannot wait for.

It is basically, here, I'll bring it up, but you can explain it.

It's all of the productivity tips and hacks that you could even think of for the iPhone and the iPad. - Yeah, what I was trying to think is if somebody, and this actually happens in real life, is people know that I love the iPad and the iPhone.

And if somebody sat down with me and said, you know, Jeff, I'm an attorney.

I wanna get the most out of my devices.

You know, what are the things that I need to know?

And I could say, hold on, take notes, we're gonna go fast. - Right. - And we're just gonna go through all of 'em. - You're gonna blow through. - And so I have tried to stick as many, I mean, I've got far more than I'm gonna be able to get through in an hour. - It's gonna be a good one. - But you know, it'll be a fun session.

And so that's gonna be fun.

And then afterwards, you know, I'm sure I'll take some of the best ones and I'll put them in future posts on the website. - Oh, absolutely. - So that's gonna be fun. - I'll be taking, I'll take a lot of pictures today. - It's fun for me because my session yesterday, Brett, was very much futuristic, where are we going?

You know, this is early day, stuff like that.

My one today is very practical.

It's like, you can use this right now. - Do it, do it right now. - You can literally start using this as soon as the session ends.

So that doesn't make you such a-- - Okay, well, you're gonna share a tip, you're gonna share it.

I'm gonna share a tip that I'm gonna share tomorrow.

But real quick, let's do a quick in the show. - Quick in the show. - Yeah, I love this because typically, we could have just called it in the severance because it's like all we have been talking about is the severance show.

But now, that's over, at least for now, right?

Season three is on the horizon.

Well, a few months down the way.

But the studio, the studio, we talked about this.

I think both of us have watched at least the first two episodes so far.

And I was, we talked about this just real quick.

It's a great show, but I was even more mesmerized by the cinematography.

The way that they filmed the show was amazing, Jeff. - Exactly, and I don't think it spoils anything.

I hope it doesn't spoil anything to say that the title of the second episode is called "The One-er."

That's a phrase I actually did not know beforehand, but it's a filmmaking term that means that you have just a single shot.

So you're not cutting, it's a single cut.

And it's just no cuts.

So it means that much like if you're watching actors on a stage play, there's no room for mistakes, right?

'Cause they just have to be perfect.

And it's just gonna keep on going.

And the more, the longer that the episode goes and the longer that the single shot goes, you're more impressed that, oh my goodness, how did, like, nobody made mistakes?

The lighting is perfect.

I mean, how are they even technically doing this?

And it's very meta because the episode-- - Exactly, I was just gonna say that. - And the actors are talking about, as they're actually doing a one-er, it's very, very, very clever.

So if you, I mean, don't get me wrong, the content of the show is very fun.

And one of the nice things is that because it's a show about Hollywood, my understanding is the star, I mean, it's just gonna have cameos. - So many cameos already. - So if you're interested in just seeing the rich and famous actors that you know on screen for a few minutes, you're gonna see them in the show.

But clearly the production value of the show is off the top, which makes it fun.

Because, and I love, it used to be, we always talk about how way back when, HBO was the place that you went for the high value production shows.

And HBO has some of those now, whatever it's called nowadays, Macs.

But now I think Apple TV+ is now the place for that because Severance was amazing.

So many other shows have been incredible.

This one, clearly, people that really care about the craft of telling a story, again, it brings us right back to what we were talking about for attorneys, Brett.

Whether I am trying to convince a jury or an appellate court or whether a director in Hollywood is just trying to tell a good story and be persuasive, it's all about having care for what you do and just doing it really, really well.

So I'm excited about this show.

And here come the dogs, Brett. - There they are.

Like on.

Bill, you might have to get a quick shot of it real quick.

We give you permission. - Turn the camera. - Turn to the dogs.

They're coming in right now.

They're parading in. - That is too funny. - Thanks, Bill.

He's the production manager and cameraman at the same time.

Fantastic.

That's so great.

Look at 'em.

Look, they're just, they're so obedient. - They are very cute. - Like, don't you just wanna hug them?

Okay, that's really great. - I may have to go do that later on. (laughing) - Okay, that's probably plenty on here.

Let's get to a couple of quickies.

I'll go first real quick. - In the know. - In the know.

We're doing in the know.

So tomorrow, I'm actually doing an episode that is, it's the closer of the conference.

It's been this way for a long time.

We call it 60 Tips in 60 Minutes.

No, I'm sorry, 60 Seconds.

No, 60 Minutes. (laughing) It's been a long day already.

But we do it so there's four of us that are on stage and we share these tips just in like rapid fire mode and it's great.

Here's one that I'm gonna share tomorrow which I have been using at the conference.

You know, I still have business cards that I will give out.

But less and less so these days.

Everybody says, well, why don't we just connect on LinkedIn, right?

Which is great.

And so typically what I do is I look at their badge and I get their name and I go into my LinkedIn app and I start typing in their name.

Is this you?

Wait, you know, there's two mics here.

Is this you or is this one?

Well, no longer.

If you go into your LinkedIn app, this is iPhone or Android, and you can tap the search bar at the top of your app in LinkedIn.

And when you do that, that's where you would start typing in somebody's name.

But if you look to the right, the far to the right of that search bar, there's a little tiny QR code symbol.

And if you tap that, it will immediately bring up your QR symbol that somebody that you're sharing with could open their LinkedIn app.

And when you tap that, one of the tabs is the QR symbol, the other is scan.

And they just tap scan, they look at your QR symbol, and immediately they're pulled right into your LinkedIn on that.

And you can do the same way.

It's just, it's so easy.

Now, I know we can like tap, you know, if they have an iPhone, I can tap that.

But it's like if they have an Android and I don't, and I don't necessarily want them on my contacts, I just want them in my LinkedIn, you know, networking list.

And I found this has worked out really fantastic. - Yeah, another thing that I like about it is it's, especially here, you're at a conference, you're gonna meet people and you wanna share stuff like that.

But if you just share a contact information, of course, Apple has made it easy to do that for a long time.

Or even if you just share like your, you know, here's the firm I'm at, here's my current bio on my webpage. - Right. - That's actually interesting.

But oftentimes I get more interesting details about a person from their LinkedIn page.

Because for example, if I was to share my contact, it has, you know, here's my law firm and here's my law firm bio page. - Yeah. - Which is interesting.

But my LinkedIn will also have, you know, where my education was, that happens to be on my law firm webpage, but it may not be there.

And although I personally have been working at the same law firm for, you know, 30 years now, sometimes people move around.

And although when they give you a business card, whether it's actual or virtual, that's where they currently are.

But when you looked at your LinkedIn bio, you can see, oh, they previously worked for X and they were at Y and they were at Z.

And when they were at Z, they may actually know somebody else I know that worked at Z. - Exactly, exactly. - And so LinkedIn is again, I mean, I know, LinkedIn is nothing revolutionary, but LinkedIn, it's been around for a long time.

But it's a great way to get more information about other people.

And so that goes back to your tip, that if you're gonna share something, it's a great thing to share.

So that's really, really good tip. - Yes, yes. - Thank you, Mark. - That's mine. - Okay, so here's my tip today.

And it is shared with you.

Shared with you is a concept that Apple has had for a while.

And you and I had a tip in the past on this show, Brett, where we talked about that, you know how sometimes a friend of yours might share something in the messages app, right?

And so, and then, you know, it's been now been three months later and you're like, gosh, you know, I know that they shared that restaurant with me, or they shared that product on Amazon that they use, but like, am I gonna scroll all the way back and find it?

And so the tip that we shared in the past is when you're in messages, if you tap on the person's face at the top and, you know, get to the information, you then get to a screen where you can see a list of all the things that that person has shared with you in the messages app.

You're laughing at the dogs. - I am, I know.

How can you not?

People just are magnetized to them. - So that's just within the messages app.

But my tip today is it's actually more than that.

Apple has taken this shared with you idea and they are bringing it through all their products. - Oh, okay. - The page that I'm going to in today's show notes is a page on the Apple's website where they talk about how you can use shared with you, you know, if you're in the music app and somebody shares a song with you, for example, even in Apple TV.

If somebody shares that you should watch something, you can see that from within the TV app, what they've shared with you.

And the one that I want to focus on is, you know, we all use Safari on our iPad, right?

And as it's described on this page, and I'm gonna do it as I'm talking.

So I'm in Safari, I'm looking at a website, I'm gonna press the plus, right?

So as if I'm gonna open up a brand new webpage.

And instead of typing something in the bar at the top where you would put a URL, first I see a list in Safari of my favorites.

Well, that makes perfect sense because I might want to go to one of my favorites.

But then right underneath that, I see suggestions.

And you're like, where do these suggestions come from?

So here's the tip.

If you scroll down a little bit more at the very bottom of the screen, you'll see a button that says edit.

If you tap on edit, you will see that the things that are gonna show up in suggestions, first of all, what is my order?

I don't want my favorites first. - Yeah, I like that.

I know people can't see this, but I'm vouching that he's exactly what he said. - Underneath that, you can say, what do you want to show in suggestions?

Do I wanna show places that I frequently visit?

That makes good sense because if I often go to this one page, you know, that's a good suggestion for me, even if it's not a bookmarker.

But another option here is shared with you, which means that the fact that four months ago, you sent me a text message or an email or something like that that shares a website, it's gonna pull that information in and it's gonna be filtered in and incorporated within my suggestions.

And so, you know, it goes back to what Michael was saying before.

Apple stuff just works and it's a nice interface.

You don't have to think about why this works well, but now I know that it does.

And if on the other hand, if you say that I like the suggestions, but I don't wanna put in here the things that people text me because I have crazy friends and they text me crazy stuff.

I only want my suggestions to be the places that I visited often.

This is how you do it.

Go back to that edit thing and you can change it.

So that's Safari and there's other tips about how you shared with you in photos and in news and everything else.

But you know, Apple has really, I think it makes perfect sense.

People share things with you and sometimes you act upon it immediately, but sometimes you just wanna have it in the back of your brain or in your iPad or your iPhone's brain so that in the future when it's relevant, you have easy access to it.

So it's a cool little feature. - I think to your point, you addressed this earlier, like the only where, the place that I've seen this mostly is in messages. - Sure. - Like there was a place, maybe if I do a new or something like that that I could find where people had shared specific photos.

Like if I wanna go, you and I share photos back and forth and there typically is a place where I can go, oh, here it is.

So if I tap into your name and messages.

Yeah, and then here is all the photos that you have shared with me or notes that we've shared amongst each other. - And links too. - Yeah, exactly.

Now that, but that's just in messages, right?

I mean, that's sort of the same thing, like you said. - Well, that's the reason it works in messages. - The point of that webpage and the Apple website is they show you how the shared with you idea implemented differently in different apps.

Another example of course is photos.

In fact, literally just yesterday, Brett, you took some photos of a section that I was doing.

We look like idiots 'cause we're wearing our vision pros and stuff like that.

And instead of just sharing one or two photos with me, what you did is you said, here's, I took 50 photos or whatever it was.

And I'm just gonna share an album.

And so now when I open up my photos app, I actually have, besides my own photos, there's a section that's called shared with you.

It's got, here is the album that you share with me and I can tap and I can get to it.

And so, you called it ABA TECHSHOW 2025.

I didn't even tell you this, but I threw some pictures in that shared album. - Oh, nice. - 'Cause now we can check. - Oh, that's so great. - Some of the pictures I took, I threw in that album.

And so now they're gonna show up on your thing as well.

So there you go. - There's pictures of people taking pictures of each other.

Okay, that's great.

More meta on that.

Oh my goodness.

Okay, we should probably wrap this up 'cause we gotta get to some other sessions and some other things.

We gotta pet dogs.

There's all kinds of things going on that we have to do.

Jeff, this is so fun.

I knew this was gonna be fun.

Bill, thank you again on the other side of the camera for being with us and for helping.

We wanna thank Michael for joining us as well.

We'll talk with you next week, I guess.

But boy, there's a whole lot that could happen in between now and then.

But we gotta get through this day and then the next weekend.

Always fun talking.

We'll talk with you next week for sure, Jeff.