Welcome to In the News for September the 25th,

2026.

It is Happy Dolly Parton Day.

It is 9-2-5.

I am Brett Burney from AppsintheLaw.com.

And this is Jeff Richardson from iPhoneJD.

Hey,

Brett, you know, this morning I tumble out of bed and I stumbled into the kitchen.

Oh, my goodness.

I poured myself a cup of ambition and yawned and stretched and tried to come to life.

Yes.

9-2-5.

You know, we didn't really talk about that.

I was actually in Nashville on the day that unfortunately she passed.

And boy,

it was just like I started having a tear because just everybody was –

billboards changed within like 30 minutes of the news.

And it was just such a – wow.

I mean,

like there was impromptu flower collections and things.

It was really touching.

Man, she's missed.

She's missed already.

But let's get to some technology news.

I think one of the biggest things that we talked about from a week ago now,

we recorded early last Friday morning.

And I was bemoaning that fact because within just a few minutes after we finished and we turned off and we stopped recording,

you had a special trip to the Apple store there in New Orleans area.

And you picked up your iPhone 18 Pro Max.

And since then,

you have done a pretty comprehensive review.

I'd love to go through some of the details here.

You had some great pictures that you did some comparisons on.

And by now, we have seen sort of a lot of other people come out with some of their own thoughts and some of their comparisons on this.

I would love to just maybe dive a little bit into it.

Here are some of your general thoughts on this,

Jeff, because I feel like it's sort of some boring updates,

but it's still exciting nonetheless.

Yeah.

Before I get to the details of it, let me just say, and I addressed this first time I post,

the upgrade process,

we have all gone through this,

whether you're getting a new device right now or you're going to get a new one in two years,

we've all gone through the process of upgrading Apple equipment.

And I just wanted to say I have such mixed emotions about it because I've now done it,

I guess, three times in the last week.

I upgraded my iPhone 17 Pro Max to the 18 Pro Max.

I updated my Apple Mac Mini.

I had the M2 and I just got the M5 Pro.

Right. And then I updated my Apple Watch.

So three different devices that I have updated,

you know,

moved from one thing to another.

By far, the best experience was the Apple Watch.

It was essentially seamless.

It just it did exactly what you would want it to do.

Moved over everything from my old Apple Watch.

OK.

Everything that you would possibly want.

The iPhone was for me, it was OK this time.

But, you know, there are these questions about how you

do it? You know, do you do the direct iPhone to iPhone transfer?

Do you do the iCloud backup?

When you were storing an iCloud backup,

it's nice because you can start using your new device

pretty much immediately,

but it takes many, many,

many hours as it's downloading things and putting

apps on it and stuff like that.

I decided to do the direct move over because the thing is,

once it's done,

you know, you have your two devices next to each other.

For me, I did it.

They were both on our Wi-Fi here at my office.

And once it's done,

your new phone is basically up and running.

I mean, you're good to go.

There was a couple of little things I had to do, like installing my law firm's VPN software,

which you have to do manually and stuff like that.

But for the most part, everything was really there.

And I'm glad I did that.

But I will give Apple a little knock on this because the process itself is just so cryptic.

I mean, you start the process.

I mean, I think I mentioned this in here.

It told me it was going to take seven hours.

Seven hours,

you said.

At this point,

I went to the Apple store.

I came back to the office.

I started to get to work.

I started the process.

I mean, I think when I may have started it, it was close to noon.

And I'm thinking seven hours.

I'm not going to be at my office at seven o'clock tonight.

And you certainly don't want to upset things when it's doing this transfer.

But then, of course, that was wrong.

It wasn't seven hours.

It ended up being about two hours.

I just wish that Apple would be a little bit more, you know, of all the people that work

for Apple,

it seems like they could have people do, you know, not that it's the most exciting

job in the world,

but do nothing but upgrade devices in all sorts of different configurations

and just improve this process.

You know, give me a better estimate.

Give me better things.

Now, I will tell you, let me say,

this year was better than some because I've had years

in the past where, for example,

moving my phone number on the day that a new device comes

out, you know, contacting AT&T,

it's failed, had to do it multiple times.

Oh, yeah.

Seamless.

So, you know,

bravo to Apple and AT&T for making that seamless when I'm sure there were,

you

know,

a bajillion people upgrading iPhones on the day that it came out.

So that did work well,

but it's just, you know, middle.

And then while we're talking about the upgrade process, I mean, let me just say that my Mac

and we'll get to that in a second,

but I had some issues on that upgrade.

Fortunately,

it did work out.

I'll save that discussion for when we,

when we get to the Mac later on today's podcast,

but it's just like three different upgrades,

you know, good.

Okay.

And thank God it finally worked.

So, okay.

That's, that's, that's, that's the phone itself though.

I mean, it's definitely exciting every year.

as our iPhones get better and better,

you know,

we're at the point,

and we're already at this point

with like Macs and stuff like that.

You know, the idea of a year-to-year iPhone change

or iPad change,

gosh, it used to be

there were just so many revolutionary things

coming out the next year.

You know, this new iPhone has an app store.

Oh my goodness.

This new iPhone has a, you know,

much better retina screen.

Oh my goodness.

You know, we're now at the point

where the year-to-year changes are minor.

And I think that's a good thing

because it means that we've reached,

you know, more of maturity

with the iPhone,

the iPhone 17 pro was,

I mean, of course it was one of my all-time favorite

iPhones.

Cause you say that every year,

but like,

it was one that like,

that is, I mean,

that's the one that you use too, right? That is a fantastic device.

It is fast.

It is good.

It,

it, it has heat sinks in it. So it's a little bit better for you.

All the things that you would want

it to do.

And so this year's changes are relatively minor and we'll talk about it.

But again,

I realized that this is a silly topic because only a small percentage of people get a

iPhone every year.

And they are the people that just like me want to be like the total geek

enthusiasts and stuff like that.

And so for them, it almost doesn't even matter what's new. It's

just, they, they enjoy living on the cutting edge.

What most people do is they wait two,

three,

four,

sometimes even more years to upgrade iPhones.

And for them,

it's such a big,

nice change because

if an iPhone gets 10 to 20% faster every year,

and if you wait four years,

well, gosh, by the

time that you get your iPhone,

it's just incredibly good.

And so that is good. So anyway,

I want to

focus on the new features because that's the new interesting things to talk about but i don't want

to lose that the big picture here is this is if you have an iphone that's a couple years old you

didn't use the 17 maybe you didn't get a 16 oh my goodness are you in for a treat because there's

just so many improvements um and in fact last year do you remember brett you moved to the 17 do you

remember what you moved from you didn't have a 16 the year before it was a 15 i skipped the 16

but i could still tell the difference yeah you skip typically do it every two-year upgrade is that

Well,

it's just been the way.

And in fact, that might be how it goes this year as well,

just because I have the 17 Pro.

And that's what I referenced earlier,

although other people have said similar that it's not that exciting from the full form factor,

right?

I mean,

I put on iOS 27 on the 17 Pro,

which obviously runs it just fine.

So I feel like I've got all of those improvements and updates.

But it's not, I don't know if there's quite enough for me.

Now,

you, you're Mr.

iPhone JD.

I think that you could justify moving every year as you do.

But for me, I'm like, I don't know if there's quite enough to push me over that edge.

It'd be great.

I would love it.

But the wrench in the room right now is there's a new form factor coming out, right?

We're not going to talk a whole lot about the duo today because we'll talk about that

coming up.

But I feel like to some extent, maybe some people are waiting out for that.

I don't think I am necessarily.

I still want to play with it before I do that.

But yes,

I've seen that. But I will tell you just exactly what you were describing.

There's a lot of folks that I know. In fact,

we have a mutual acquaintance. Hi,

Carol,

that she had a 13 and she's going to be going. She just already ordered the the 18 Pro Max.

And like,

I don't even think she has a dynamic outline.

Right. I mean, it's so many things,

not just from the speed aspects that are going to be happening, Jeff,

but there's so much that is going to be new and exciting for those folks that are coming up from there.

So yeah,

if you've got that, we've said this many years before as well.

If you've got that leap there,

I mean, it's totally going to be worth it.

And you're going to be so much more happier.

I mentioned this too.

This is only rumors.

And so,

I mean, who knows?

It could be wrong.

But next year would be like the 20 and I forget the 20 year anniversary.

I guess the original iPhone came out in 2007.

So next year, 2027, be the 20 year anniversary.

And maybe for that reason,

or maybe just because it's the state of the technology,

Some people have speculated that, you know, little birdies have told them that next year's iPhone will be a major increase.

Like one of the rumors, for example,

is that the screen will get so,

you know, there'll be almost no bezel.

It'll be an even bigger screen.

So who knows?

But like if you wanted to wait to like something that seems a little bit more exciting and new,

there's an argument that maybe that'll be next year.

Of course, maybe not.

That's just a rumor.

Could be wrong.

So now that I've poo-pooed the idea of upgrading,

let me say that this is a nice upgrade.

I mean, this is everything that you want in a new iPhone you get.

You know,

of course, you're going to get much better battery life.

That's not very exciting.

But I mean, you do get it.

And it's just amazing and fantastic.

Of course,

it's going to be faster.

And,

you know, this new processor,

all the people that have done this,

that speed checks

and stuff like that,

it's just a really nice increase.

And it's not just speed for the sake of speed.

It's focused speed on things like AI,

which, as you and I have talked about,

is like one

of the most exciting features of iOS 27.

And heck, it's one of the most exciting features of certainly legal technology, all technology.

Right,

right.

So like having a device that's going to do an even better job with the AI,

that's fantastic.

And then,

you know, the number one thing for new iPhones is so many people are excited about the cameras in the iPhone.

And,

you know,

the camera is so tiny on an iPhone compared to like a more traditional,

you know,

how can Apple get around that?

And one thing they've done over the years is that even though the sensor,

the lens is small,

they use the exciting things about, you know, computational photography and using technology.

Your iPhone doesn't just take one picture.

Your iPhone takes, you know,

20 pictures and merges them all together and have the best possible picture.

That's stuff they've been doing for years.

But then even when you get to that limit,

now we've got this new variable aperture,

which is just something totally brand new.

And it's very exciting.

And you were just showing the picture that I took.

It was hard to take that picture because when you look at this new iPhone.

phone did that yeah i mean if i i'm holding it up to the zoom camera i mean you can't yeah you

can't tell it's just you had to get the light just right for that i had to shine the light on it it

took me a long time to even get this picture that it could show up but what i finally did i mean you

can totally see that the aperture is changing size absolutely from an f-stop of you know 1.48 up to

4.0 um and you know i did some test pictures where you really for far away yeah these are great

for landscape pictures you know if you're taking a picture of the mountains you're not going to

this.

But if you're in a low light situation,

it is a better picture.

It really is because you can

open it up even wider.

You can get more light in than you would get with a typical iPhone,

you know, 17,

16,

15.

And so again,

it's not dramatic,

but is a nicer picture.

They've done about as much as they could do with the software of the old phones.

And now they're

making a hardware change to do it.

And,

you know, I took some test pictures when I was outside at

night.

But we've all been in situations,

whether you're, you know, hanging out with friends in a

restaurant or a bar and the light is just for mood purposes,

it's not as bright.

You want to take a

better picture of people. So that's one cool thing.

And then the other thing is that,

you know, in

terms of distances,

I mean, the picture that you're showing right now, when you have like that bokeh

effect,

things that are in the background are either more blurry.

And again, it's totally an

artistic choice because sometimes you really do want things in the background to be more blurry

because it's a cool picture.

That's one option.

Sometimes you want just the opposite.

Sometimes you want everything as precise

and as crisp as possible.

And you can do that with this new iPhone

in a way that you just can't do with the other ones.

So it gives you this option.

This picture here.

Yeah,

this is amazing.

Like I liked how you would describe it here.

This is your 18 Pro.

This is your Pro Max.

But as you explained earlier in your review,

you're calling it the Pro just for short and say.

But man, I just love how you'd show

these different f-stops here to where you're basically telling the phone this is the f-stop

that you want right you're forcing it as opposed to letting it do it on its own but just to see that

that gradation there is really fantastic and in this last picture here with the f-stop of 1.48

i mean that's just artistic as you said i like that and then you even went on and you talked about

doing the the what do they call it the star the starburst effect i love this how you explained

down on that as well.

And we've all seen that for years because,

you know, professional pictures,

you don't even think about it, but like when a professional photographer takes a picture,

you'll notice that like a street lamp or some sort of a light in the distance or a light on the

building will have that little bit of a starburst effect. And it's probably not something you

consciously think about,

but it's,

but it is something that just,

they, they use because,

and the professional photographers can do it purposefully.

The same is true here. If you want

to have that effect, you can now do it.

And the example that I did was not the best one. I've seen

cooler ones on online if people like really find a cool shot outside on the street at night right

it's a neat effect and it gives you some things that's sort of interesting and cool um and you

know for most pictures you know and if it's in regular good light this new iphone 18 pro is going

to default to the f 1.8 which is very similar to my old phone my my 17 pro i think the 17 prone is a

is a 1.78 or then they're so close that for all intents and purposes the picture yeah 1.78 so for

all intents and purposes,

the picture is going to be pretty similar.

Yeah.

But it's for those

edge cases. It still looks good.

Is it low light?

Do you want to have more bokeh?

Do you want to

have less bokeh?

Those are the things where you get something with this new camera that you haven't

had before.

How much does that matter for you?

No,

you know,

totally up to you.

Totally up to you.

But, but it's fun.

It's cool.

It's nice.

You also go on, you talk about here, the new processor.

That's the better one, right? That's usually the story.

Again, it sounds like it's getting boring,

but every year it is exciting.

It's faster,

better cameras.

And that is important. I hate to gloss

over that, but you had another link here to Tom's Hardware,

where they're just doing this comparison

here of the 17 Pro and the 18 Pro.

You had the A19 Pro CPU in there. You got the A20 Pro now.

That's important.

Battery size.

I think you addressed that maybe a little bit in here

somewhere.

But the other section I thought was good that you talked about was the Dynamic Island

in here as well.

And this one's nice.

I mean, you and I have talked about how the dynamic island is

one of those accidental features that Apple stumbled into because they had to deal with the

fact that there were cameras at the top looking at you of your phone for things like face ID and

selfie pictures and stuff.

And so they couldn't have regular screen there.

So they decided to

just make it black and like, well, if we're going to have to make it black,

let's make it a little

bit bigger,

but we could do something interesting.

And that's the way it's, I mean, talk about,

you know,

taking,

you know,

turning something that's a negative into a positive.

What, what a,

what an amazing,

uh,

you know,

uh,

feature here.

And so the new dynamic is even better because they

have moved one of those self-facing cameras, the one that's used for, I think it's for like a face

idea, whatever they've moved off to the side of the screen.

I'm told that it's sort of right

underneath where the time is on where the clock is,

but I will tell you, like I stare at my phone

and I can't see it. I've seen people online that use a microscope and you can actually see it

So it is there,

but like it,

it works just as it's,

it works.

You haven't seen a difference with that.

Like when you've used it because that's the camera for face ID,

right?

Is that the selfie camera as well?

Or is that hidden?

I don't think, no,

it's not the selfie,

the one that you take a picture of,

but I think it's the one for face ID.

I figured out and put it in.

I remember last week we talked about Marques Brownlee did a great video and he was like

going through, cause I remember he had that microscope,

like you were talking about.

And he basically,

they just figured out, like it was that little section of the screen,

just used less pixels.

And I mean,

again,

you can get into all the technicalities of it,

but I mean, first of all,

it's just brilliant that they came up with that

as the solution there.

And then,

yeah, I'm just like,

well, how good can that be?

I mean, you're looking through pixels.

So anyway, obviously it seems to work,

but you haven't seen that there's any difference

when you've been using it for a week now.

No, no functionality.

And so all I've noticed is that my dynamic island,

when I'm not using it, is much smaller.

And does that change my life?

No,

but I mean,

It's just,

it's less of a thing up there.

What does change my life is when I'm actually using the Dynamic Island.

I mean,

again, the way that Apple advertised it is you can have three different apps running

at once,

which is cool because you can have three, I mean, that's a nice thing.

What I actually think, and I've seen many people say this online is what's even cooler

is not when you're running three apps at once.

What's cooler is when you're running two apps up there at once because you get more information

from that second app.

And it's often the difference between usable and not as usable.

And the perfect example is the timer because the timer app,

I mean,

on the iPhone 17 Pro,

if I'm listening to a podcast while I'm cooking in the kitchen.

So this is a very common use case.

I'm listening to music or I'm listening to a podcast.

So that's up in Dynamek Island.

And I'm using a timer for something on the stove or whatever else.

So that's up there.

On my iPhone 17 Pro and prior models,

my timer is just a circle.

I mean, it just shows me the timer.

It doesn't tell me anything.

I can tap it to jump into the timer if I want to,

but it doesn't tell me anything actionable.

Whereas now,

because it's got more space,

I can actually see this is how many seconds or minutes it has going.

And so now I don't need to switch anything like that.

That's literally everything I need without needing to switch apps.

So it's not just that it's more information.

This is the whole enchilada.

This is if you're cooking enchiladas.

This is the whole this is everything that you need can be in that little thing.

So like that is that's a substantial nice increase.

Again, is it enough reason to pay lots of money to upgrade your phone?

No,

but it's one of those nice things.

It might be for me.

That's what I'm struggling with.

It's like, that's so cool.

I like that.

That's going to push me over right there.

It's a great new feature this year,

and I'm sure it's going to exist next year too and

the year after that.

So eventually,

whenever people upgrade their phone, whether it's this year, next year, two

years, three years, they will have this advantage.

And then I'll be like, hey,

this is really cool because I love the dynamic island.

So that's really cool.

Yeah.

The other section you had in your review,

the Apple reference image,

which I've been waiting to see kind of how people are going to use this or utilize this.

There's going to be a video we'll talk about here at the end that I thought John Ternus was asked about this reference, or maybe he brought it up on his own.

I can't remember exactly.

But just to hear him talk about why it was so important that Apple included this as a way to basically authenticate a picture or an image that was taken on an iPhone.

Yeah. I mean, it's an authentication method.

It only works with this newest iPhone because there's like, you know,

things that it does to keep things very secure and trustworthy.

And it doesn't work for every picture by default.

You have to specifically be in the Apple reference image mode when you are in that mode. And you pick the mode just like you pick any other mode, just like you pick,

you know, spatial or what's the word?

So it's not automatic then.

No, no.

It's not on all images.

Okay.

You select,

you know, am I going to take a panorama picture?

Am I going to take a selfie picture?

You specifically say, I'm going to take a reference picture.

And when you get into that mode, by the way, you know how there's three cameras on the back

of the iPhone?

You go down to one because the only lens that supports that mode is the regular lens, the

main lens.

So you can't take a wide angle,

at least not on this iPhone.

You can't take a wide angle reference image.

You can't take a telephoto reference image.

It's just for the main camera.

But for that main camera,

everything is completely cryptographically certified.

And it goes up to the, it's private.

So it's not like Apple sees your picture.

It goes to the private cloud compute.

But Apple basically has like this digital negative.

And so they can prove,

you know, if you ever needed an expert witness or someone to testify,

you know,

this is the actual original picture.

And of course you can edit it.

You can, you know, crop it.

You can improve the picture,

you know, colors,

whatever you're going to do.

But if anybody goes, hey,

you've edited this picture.

Did you change something that this is not reality?

It's like, well, no, I can actually show you the negative,

the digital negative, as it were.

I can show you the original.

And so you can see that, you know, I did not delete somebody in the background using AI.

I did not add something that was not in the picture.

And in this age of AI and deep fakes and everything else,

this is good.

No, don't get me wrong.

This is literally step one.

It only works for this camera.

That's right.

It only works for this phone.

And so the important thing is that five years down the road,

when this has been out,

and

now just about everybody's iPhones has this capability,

you'll get into a point that for

people for whom it matters,

you know, maybe I'm an expert witness for a piece of litigation.

Maybe I'm a journalist that wants to be able to prove to the newspaper that this is actually

what happened because someone, you know, might claim that this was fake to like, no, no,

this is the real thing.

Or any other situation where authenticity matters,

you now have this option.

Now,

I would prefer a future in which the authenticity was built into every pictures.

That's what I'm going to.

Yes.

Even if you just casually took a picture and then it turns out that that picture was important,

then you would have it.

And, you know, it's baby steps.

Apple has to start somewhere and get somewhere else.

You know,

right now,

this is just me theorizing.

Because to do this is so computationally expensive,

Apple is not doing it on device.

They are doing it in their private cloud compute area.

Oh,

okay.

But as iPhones get more sophisticated and as they get faster,

and I really do, I mean, this is a whole topic for another day.

I think that right now so much of AI is done on servers because it has to be, right?

But we are going to get to the future.

I don't know if it's two years away or if it's 10 years away, but we are absolutely going to get to a future where a lot of this complicated AI stuff can already be done on device.

In fact, literally today,

some of the newest Mac computers that Apple is selling,

their Mac Ultras, they can now do on-device AI,

you know, that's almost as fast and just as effective and completely private that you don't need to go out and use Claude or ChatGPT or any of those other ones.

So, like, we are on the precipice of this future,

but I really do think a day will come when Apple can do this on-device.

And then once they do it with maybe just a little bit of securing in the cloud,

then they'll maybe hopefully bring it to all the different cameras.

So that's coming.

This is step one of many,

but it's a great step and it's a great solution for the problems of deep fakes and stuff like that, which we hear people talk about.

And it's going to only,

this is only going to be more of a problem going forward as AI gets more powerful.

So it's a really interesting future.

Well,

that's why I think it's going to have to inevitably be for every picture here, because I guess I didn't realize you had to be proactive in order to go and say, I actually want to take a reference image,

which I can see scenarios like what you were talking about,

where you could go and proactively make sure that you're doing that because you want to show that you did took a picture.

But so often,

you know, from,

I don't know, from a litigation perspective,

Jeff,

or something, it's like what I want to prove is that,

you know, this was somebody's picture that they took of the scene, but they didn't go in and turn on reference image like, or I want to maybe prove the negative like that, like,

there is none.

This was taken on an iPhone.

They claim it was on an iPhone.

And it was,

you know, something that they took.

And I'm like, well,

no, because we don't have that reference.

But you can't do that if it's if it's something that you choose to turn on.

But anyway,

like you said, that's a great way you explained it.

It's a baby step.

It's our first step on this.

And I think if nothing else,

Apple is just putting this in right now,

knowing that it's going to be inevitable,

that hopefully all cameras will be able to utilize something like this.

And yeah, we'll build upon that.

Anything else in here?

You had your little et cetera section at the bottom.

You got the black.

You talked about you got to see the other colors.

The silver,

I think, looks nice.

The black really looks nice.

I know that you were getting that.

the glacier blue looks kind of nice and light blue baby blue a little bit the burgundy i gotta tell

you my son and i went to the apple store last week as well i think i feel like the burgundy to me as

soon as i saw it i'm like that looks like dried blood like that's it looked like iron rich blood

which is not necessarily a bad thing maybe you like the color of blood but i don't know it didn't

appeal to me that glacier though i thought that was nice you know like you can just hint the hint

the blue,

but man,

the black really is nice in the sense. And I just imagine you're, you're happy

with that.

Yeah. I mean, I've always preferred the black phones. I mean, here's my old one.

You know, there was nothing wrong with the very dark blue.

This was my iPhone 17 and this is my

iPhone 18,

but I prefer the black ones. And you know, this is one little silly thing. I don't,

I don't really want to have a color for my iPhone. I want the color to be for coming from my screen,

but I recently did a review of this little snap device that sticks in the back and it's like a

popsopic type thing.

The one that I purchased was black.

And I just have to say,

it looks fantastic

on the back of my iPhone because it's the exact same color looks perfect.

And I like this because

it makes it completely flat on the black back. When I put it on a table, it doesn't move around.

And I stick my finger.

So yeah, so the color I definitely like.

And there's some other little

features too that I mentioned here,

you know, things like daughter time-lapse photography,

there's little features around the edges,

but very cool.

Last thing you put in here,

I thought this was cute.

I wish you'd have known this when you went to go pick up your iPhone.

that there was a little tiny hello in the Apple store.

I didn't know they were doing this,

but it's so cute when somebody kind of references it.

Although you said in your post, I think,

didn't you have a picture on there?

That sure enough, you took a picture of the store

and you could barely make it out there.

But I guess they're hiding these little tiny script hellos

as little signs up around the Apple stores

in order to let people that are buying a new iPhone 18 Pro

see the zoom lens and be able to zoom in on it.

Is that the whole idea?

Yeah,

that's the idea.

You can sort of telephoto.

Oh, that's so funny.

Whoever came up with this idea, I think it's so clever.

And it was only when I looked back at the pictures I took, because I took that picture

I'm going to find you in line.

Yeah.

And then also when I was standing in the store, when I was waiting for them to bring out my

phone,

I did one of those panorama.

You know how like you put it in the panorama mode.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And sometimes it's nice to have those pictures.

And sure enough,

it's there,

too.

So,

yeah, it's there.

It is.

But yes, there it is.

So a little did I know I took a picture.

I wish I'd used my telephoto to try.

So you read that story and then you went back to your pictures and you

I loved how you did the blow up out here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You were able to zoom in and look and find it.

There you go.

You little iPhone sleuth.

That's great.

It's like a little,

where's Waldo for the Apple store next time you're there?

Okay.

Now, I knew we were going to spend most of the time on the iPhone 18.

Like, that was the new one.

But you also got some other new products.

We don't have to spend as much time on it.

But let us know your thoughts so far after a week of using your brand new Apple Watch Series 12.

I usually write a review when I get a new device.

And so, of course, I did my review.

I thought it was coming.

And I had planned to do a review of the Apple Watch Series 12.

And the reason I didn't is because the most exciting feature,

I think, of this new Apple Watch is the new audio intelligence feature,

which will,

if you turn it on optionally,

will be able to do things like, you know, create a summary of your day.

through the Siri recap,

you know, use live rewind. I don't know if I'll use that one quite as much,

but like, what did somebody say within the last 15 minutes?

Those sorts of things of

this idea of an ambient AI enabled device.

Some people are selling them. People are selling

these little devices.

You might like wear it as a chain around your neck or have it that you hold

into.

But Apple is saying like, you don't need to buy something separately.

Your Apple watch is

already on your wrist and it's right there with you all day long.

And we know it's, we know it's

with you because it's attached to you. I mean, the sensors can see that it's attached to your watch.

So it's not like you're going to like take your Apple watch and leave it in a room as people are

discussing something confidential and it would record something because it can't do that because

it's not on your wrist anymore. So it's a perfect device to be a private, secure and privacy focused,

always listening device.

I think this is the most interesting features of this new Apple watch,

and it's not available yet.

It's not coming out until Apple just says later this year.

They're still working on it.

Now, one aspect of it is around now.

The way that it works, I mean, I don't understand all of it,

but there is literally new hardware

in the Apple Watch.

Apple has historically had something called a secure enclave,

which is used for things

like, you know, Face ID and stuff like that.

This is called a secure exclave.

And I'm sure there's technical or marketing reasons for that.

But all that you really need to know is that your Apple Watch is constantly listening to

the world around you.

And it's streaming and processing that in the secure part of the watch,

which means that no app can access it.

No app can use it to spy on you or figure out what's going on.

Only Apple can access that information.

And then what do they do when the audio is being processed

in the secure X-Clave?

One of the features, and it's a feature that actually is available right

now,

is this always,

it's a music recognition with Shazam. It's like an instant version of Shazam.

And we've all had a situation where you're in a restaurant or you're watching a TV show

and a song comes on and you're like, oh, that's a really cool song.

Like,

who is that artist?

I might want to listen to the song again.

We've all done it before.

And right now what we do is we can open up our iPhone or iPhone and we can turn on Shazam

and you wait.

I mean, how long do you wait?

I don't know, five seconds,

something like that.

And then,

and hopefully the song hasn't ended by then because that's always the worst time.

You get your iPhone out and turn on Shazam.

Been there.

They've moved on.

But now your watch is always listening.

And so all you need to do is just look at your watch and just like, you know how you do your scroll up to see those little things on the little panel things on the watch.

You just sort of scroll up a little bit and automatically you will.

That's a smart stack is what it's called.

Automatically, you will see an entry in your smart stack or Shazam.

And it already knows what the song is because it has been listening and it just proactively does this.

And like this is so much better because there's no risk of you missing the song.

It hasn't moved on to the next song or the TV show hasn't moved on to a scene where the music is finished.

It knows exactly what it is.

It's a really, really cool feature.

And it uses this same secure exclave.

So that same secure exclave is also going to be listening to your day,

coming up with little summaries of it so that if you want to use it,

like,

gosh, I was talking to somebody today and I know they recommended a book to me or a movie to me.

And I can't remember what that was.

You could just,

in theory,

I mean, we haven't tried it yet,

but this is how it advertises it.

I'll be able to use it.

So like,

this is a cool feature.

If someone's going to upgrade to the Apple Watch,

I think a big reason is going to be trying this out.

And I can't talk about it yet.

So that's why I sort of stopped myself

because the other new features of the Apple Watch,

and don't get me wrong,

there are some nice new features.

I mean, a big one for me personally is battery life.

Battery life is always limited on the Apple Watch,

on AirPods,

because the batteries are so small.

And like,

we all get to the point after a couple of years

where my AirPod battery just doesn't last

as long as it used to,

or my Apple Watch battery just doesn't last as long as it used to.

And I was actually there with my prior Apple Watch.

I was getting to the point where at the end of the day,

and it wasn't even the end of the day,

it would be like, you know,

seven o'clock at night,

and I'm down to 10% battery.

And I often do like those fitness plus workouts

with my Apple TV at night before I go to bed.

And I can't do it because it's like the,

you know,

I'm almost out of battery on my Apple Watch.

I have to charge it.

It was totally a pain.

So I wanted to get new battery.

So any new Apple Watch would have given me a fresh battery.

But in additional,

the Series 12 has improved battery and the Series 11 also improved battery.

And so I have a overall better battery plus it's a new battery.

And so the end result is the battery life is much better.

In fact, there was a funny thing that happened to me the other day, Brett.

It was about four o'clock, five o'clock in the afternoon.

And I looked at my Apple Watch and I saw I had like 15% battery life.

I'm like, oh,

this is like the bad old days.

Why do I?

And then I was like,

I totally forgot to charge my, I can wear my Apple watch every night

when I sleep.

I totally forgot to watch, to charge it in the morning.

And I'm realizing it's like almost five o'clock in the day and it has gone like an entire

day.

And then until five o'clock the next day,

I'm like, what is this?

And I, this is like an Apple watch ultra.

This is crazy.

I've never had this much battery life.

So it was like, oh my goodness,

that is impressive.

So it's vastly better battery life, which is nice.

It's also faster too, because it's got a brand new processor on it.

Yes.

11.

Yeah.

It's going to be nice for like, you know, some of the, you know, Siri type stuff it does and everything else.

And it means it's a little bit more responsive.

But again,

better battery life and more responsive are like fantastic features for an Apple Watch.

But it's not a very exciting thing to write about in a review.

Yeah,

it has more battery power.

Yeah,

it's faster.

You know,

there's my review.

It's one paragraph.

And so I'm going to wait.

I'm going to wait to do a full review until Apple has actually done all the audio intelligence features.

Because that's when I'll be able to tell people,

hey,

should you actually consider getting a Series 12 for this reason?

Or is this just a ho-hum feature and not a reason to upgrade?

So the jury is out.

Let's put a pin in that.

Use whatever analogies you want.

And later on this year, I'll have more to say about the Series 12.

We covered the iPhone Pro Max that you got.

We covered the Apple Watch Series 12.

I had completely forgotten that how long ago did you order a brand new Mac Mini?

I guess it wasn't too long ago.

But I know that they talked about this.

They talked about this, I think, over the summer,

right?

This was in WWDC or,

oh, no, maybe this was one of the ones that they just kind of had a press release.

I remember that you ordered it, but we kind of forgot that, right, with all the excitement of the phone and the watch.

But you have your brand new – you have a Mac – is it a Mac Mini or you didn't get the studio,

right?

You got the Mac Mini 5.

Right.

So my theory is that Apple was going to announce this originally.

They thought they might put it in the September announcement.

But then there was so much in that September keynote announcement.

you know, the iPhone duo,

so many things I want to talk about that they're like, you know, let's pull

this out.

And so a few weeks before the announcement,

they issued the press release,

but the computer

didn't actually come out until after the new iPhones and after the new Apple watches were

available.

It came out on Tuesday and I pre-ordered mine. So mine was ready on Tuesday.

So I got it on

Tuesday.

And yeah, so it's a Mac mini.

The brand new Mac mini is the one with the M6 chip,

which is the latest and greatest.

But because that is more of a consumer device,

you can't add extra

storage. You can't add as much extra RAM.

And so that's not what I get. What I got was the beefier

one that actually,

it technically uses an older generation processor, but it's a better processor,

which is the M5.

I got the M5 Pro.

And it is really nice. So mine is, it's a Mac mini with an

M5 Pro,

and it is substantially faster than the computer from a couple of years ago that I was

upgrading.

But again,

this is the sort of thing, like I was talking iPhone upgrades,

you know,

We're way past the stage of anything revolutionary with a new computer.

This is a new form factor for me because the Mac mini I had been using was a little bit

flatter and wider,

whereas the Mac minis for the last couple of years,

they've been like

a little bit smaller and taller.

So it is,

which it's cuter.

I mean, who cares how cute the computer is, but hey,

if you want a computer, computer,

it's there.

But the main thing for me is it's just going to be faster.

And I'll tell you,

I've noticed that I've only,

I've only been using it since Tuesday night

and it really is faster.

I mentioned before the upgrade process,

Brett, it was frustrating for me because what I was

going to originally do was computer to computer transfer,

like, you know, have an Ethernet

between the two of them and just transfer everything over as fast as possible.

And first of all, it's frustrating because to go from one Mac to another,

like you always

use laptop computers.

So your computers always have a screen built in.

But for me,

I'm using a desktop computer that doesn't have a monitor.

And so I just have one monitor.

So I had to unplug the cord,

put it in the new computer,

unplug the cord, put it in the old computer and go back and forth and back and forth.

And because you have to like click on different buttons and different screens to do the upgrade.

And then as I did it,

like three times in a row,

it kept failing.

And because I had like four terabytes of data,

sometimes it would fail within like five minutes, but sometimes it would fail like after 45 minutes or an hour.

It was very, very frustrating.

And so I'm like, this is not working.

I got to go to plan B.

And so what I did for plan B,

much like for an iPhone,

you can backup from an iCloud backup.

Right.

For a Mac,

you can restore from a time machine backup.

That's right.

I had not intentionally prepared a time machine backup for this purpose.

Yeah,

I don't even use it anymore.

The point of time machine is that it's running all the time, so you didn't even use it.

But for having a desktop computer, because I'm not moving it, you might as well have a drive connected to it that does time machine backup.

Exactly. That I agree with, yes.

Every once in a blue moon,

I delete something and I'll go to a time machine to pull it up.

But it happens very rarely.

I mean, it's mainly there as an insurance policy, right?

Just in case things fail.

But I was so happy because I mean, like short off, you know,

I've these backup,

the restore

procedure hasn't been working for me.

I've got that time machine backup.

It's updated all the time.

So like it has everything that was on my computer.

So sure enough, that's what I did.

I just connected that time machine external hard drive to my computer.

And, you know, it was a slower connection because it's it's USB,

whatever it is.

I don't know.

It's not even a USB-C,

whatever.

It's a USB-A connection.

So it wasn't terribly fast.

And yet I went off to work on whatever morning that was, Wednesday morning.

And I said, just, you know,

you go ahead and you start.

And then I came home from work at the end of the day.

I had my fingers crossed.

I'm like, please,

please.

I'm like, yep,

everything was there.

And it just totally worked.

So it was seamless.

It was frustrating to get to that point.

But again, it just makes, I wish that Apple had, you know, there's no reason that the direct

computer to computer transfer did not work correctly.

I can't explain it.

It's frustrating.

But at least at the end of the day,

I got to what I needed.

So I guess that's all that mattered.

The Mac Mini, I kept calling it the Mac Mini 5.

I meant like the M5.

I remember there was the M6, but you got the M5 Pro.

And obviously you had some very good reasons to do that.

Man, you have just had an Apple-y week this whole week.

Did you add any unique accessories to any of your devices,

Jeff?

I like the story you leaked to today.

This was a Chance Miller, a 9to5 Mac.

Here are all of Apple's official accessories for iPhone 18 Pro,

Apple Watch Series 12,

and more.

And boy, this page goes on and on and on.

Like there's all the watch straps,

all of the cases for the phone, which I got to tell you, I feel like I've gotten more people asking some questions about the cases now,

like Apple-specific cases.

And then toward the bottom,

there's something that we talked about last week, the wrist strap, which is kind of new.

And then, of course, we have the cross-body strap.

That's a couple of years now.

But then they also still have those wallet with MagSaves.

And again,

I see a lot of people using these fine woven or these Apple wallets with MagSafe

that kind of,

you know, pop onto the back of the iPhone.

Yeah, lots of options there.

I did look when I was in the Apple store because I was there both to get my new iPhone

and I was also there to pick up my Mac mini on Tuesday.

Nice.

I did take a look at them because it's new colors and stuff like that.

I like this Chance Miller post because he puts everything together on one page.

All of them.

You can sort of scroll through it and see all the pictures, the colors,

stuff like that.

A lot.

I just ultimately decided not to get anything.

But, you know,

it's nice to see what the new options are.

Interesting hardware options from Apple to accompany all of your, you know, inexpensive purchases from Apple.

All right.

Right before we get to a quick in the know, because I kind of copped out this week, and I'm excited to kind of hear what is maybe something that you have been using over this last week that is that's going to be most exciting.

But the last little thing in your post today was just an amazing video that you linked to today.

This is his name is Maloud Accor of the French program Click TV,

C-L-I-Q-U-E on Canal+.

I'll be honest with you.

I've never heard about this journalist outlet,

but I'm not in France.

Right.

And I believe that's where they are.

And we've seen many interviews with with executives from Apple.

I got to tell you, this is already my favorite one.

I love,

I mean, he's a French journalist,

right?

He's interviewing John.

I mean, he speaks English,

but it sounds like a Frenchman.

And it's just, I feel like that that's cute in and of itself.

But just the way he's asking some of the questions,

it's just so unique because,

you know, we're

so used to seeing sort of like US-based journalists,

right, talking to Apple.

And there's a certain way that Apple and the United States journalists kind of, you know,

spar back and forth.

But to hear him,

a journalist,

Maloud from France,

he just has a little bit of a different angle.

And it's just refreshing.

And it's just neat because he's really digging a little deeper into John Ternus.

Even just asking him specifically when John Ternus was asked about if he would consider becoming CEO of Apple.

And the journalist even pushed him a little bit more like, well,

you know, what was going through your head?

Like, what did you think about it?

And John is like, well, I had to go talk to my wife.

And we had to talk about it over and over.

And we all knew that that's probably happening.

It's just,

I don't know that anybody's really pushed him that much on it.

And it's just a creepy little video.

I'm so glad that you linked to it.

I haven't finished it all,

but there's some really interesting little tidbits in here,

as you said, I think in your post that we really see kind of internally a little bit

with John Turnus and just kind of see how he thinks through things,

which to me is always very interesting.

Yeah, I enjoyed it for the same reason as you.

You know, I've always been a fan.

I know you are too of Joanna Stern,

formerly the Wall Street Journal.

Oh,

yes.

Because she's a good interviewer and she will sometimes ask questions that almost seem like

a little out of left field,

but they're actually very insightful and they're designed to get

like an answer.

And it's why when she does an interview of somebody, I'm like, this is going to be worth

seeing.

And I felt the same way about this.

Maybe it's just because of the French sensibilities or this particular interviewer who like I had

never heard of before because I don't listen to French,

you know,

technology podcasts.

My high school French is, you know,

but it was an interesting interview also.

But the main reason I linked to it

was not only was that the interview style was interesting,

but this was like a first opportunity

to really hear from John Turnus in an extended way.

He has given presentations at Apple keynotes in the past.

He has spoken to people in the past in interviews,

but now he's the big cheese.

He is the CEO.

And so it was nice to have him,

you know,

pressed.

And again,

he is the CEO.

He's incredibly well media trained.

He's going to be guarded in

what he says.

And yet every once in a while,

he would talk about things like, you know, talking to

his wife about taking the job and, you know,

you know, screen time and, you know, where his kids

when they use it.

So I thought it was interesting for that reason.

And there's just lots of little

tidbits here. I mean, I'll pull out one that I'm interested in. I know this is for me personally

an interest,

but,

you know,

as you know,

the vision pro was one of my little pet things. I know

So few people in the world have the Vision Pro,

but I love it.

Every time I use it, it just delights me.

And so he asked about it.

And if you don't mind, I'm just going to read a couple sentences of what he said.

Because he was asked, like, you know, is the Vision Pro dead?

You know, what's, you know, is it gone away?

And he said,

you know, the Vision Pro is an amazing device,

blah, blah, blah.

But this is what I thought was insightful.

This is John Ternus.

I think of it as like the early days of computers.

It's the early days of a long journey.

That's how I feel about the Vision Pro.

What you see,

if you think about the early days,

people found different reasons where

the computer allowed them, the Mac allowed them to do something never before possible,

like desktop publishing.

And it became a big thing in that industry.

What we're seeing with the Vision Pro now is certainly there's early adopters who love

it, parentheses,

Jeff Richardson,

and they're using it and they're enjoying it.

But also surgeons are starting to use it in surgery because it's just a fundamentally

better tool for them.

It's a monitor that's kind of sitting over here.

And so it's growing in that area.

In film production,

people are using it for set development and things like that.

And so we're going to continue to grow and find more and more compelling use cases.

And I think there's a very bright future.

Amen.

This is totally the thing.

Because I remember in the 1980s when I was just like in high school and could care less

about business things.

But I remember people saying like the idea of a spreadsheet,

you know, it was, you know,

the VisiCalc was the first one.

And then eventually Microsoft came out with Excel.

People in business were like,

oh my goodness.

a spreadsheet changes everything.

That makes it so much faster to do financial stuff.

And then in the 90s and the late 80s, desktop publishing, like John Turner said,

magazines that could not be made before are now made because of computers in general and Macs in

particular.

And then over time, we got to the point where computers were like a specialized

thing and not everybody had them.

But eventually over time,

everybody has a computer in their house

and then everybody has a laptop computer

and then you go to where we are today

and everybody has an iPhone in their pocket.

So we have the computer,

you know,

the iPhone in my mind really is the culmination

of the personal computer.

You can draw a line from those original,

you know,

Commodore 64s and Macintosh Pluses

in the 80s all the way through to the iPhone

and it is the culmination of it.

And we are,

and I completely agree,

this is where we are with the Vision Pro.

I'm enjoying my Vision Pro today

for the same reason that I enjoyed using computers

in the 80s because I could do fun, unique,

geeky things.

And yet I understand that very few people have them except for specialized reasons,

like

John Turner was saying, you know, surgeons using them and people in Hollywood are using

them.

You know, Disney Imagineers use them to like see what a new ride is going to be like before

they build the ride.

They can actually picture it and preview it and edit it before you actually start building

things.

And so right now it's got these specialized uses.

But as Apple continues to push the technology future,

there's going to be more and more widespread

appeal.

And so I serious, I really,

really don't, I really hope that Apple sticks with this for

the long haul.

And John said the right things because he could have been less enthusiastic.

He could have said,

the Vision Pro remains in our lineup or something that, you know,

more boring than that.

But not only did he give the appropriate marketing answer,

but he actually had some reasons behind

it of like why this is the future.

And so that made me excited because this is what I wanted to hear the new CEO from Apple

here.

So that was one of the things that jumped out at you.

And anything jumped out at you from what he said in the interview?

I'm sorry, I'm just thinking through exactly what you were talking about there.

And I just had never kind of thought about that desktop publishing.

You and I probably remember back in the days, what was it, PaintShop Pro or whatever?

I mean, just the fact that you could create something like that.

And even for the consumer side, and I worked at some newspapers back in the day when I was in high school too.

You know, just at the very beginnings of PageMaker Pro and,

you know, all the stuff that we were using back then was just amazing.

because my dad was a printer.

And I remember we would do like,

we would have to, we'd have special machines.

You'd have to do the type

and then you'd have stencils.

And I mean, just all this stuff.

I just,

wow.

I mean, just the fact that John Ternus

would kind of hearken back to that was good.

There's just one quote that jumped out at me quickly

is,

I forget exactly the question that he asked,

but I just, I wrote this down

because I couldn't get this out of my mind.

John says, people often mistake technology for product.

I'm like, okay,

I don't know how that makes sense.

but he goes, we build products,

features,

and experiences.

And it just so happens that as the company of Apple,

we just use technologies to make those things happen.

Now, I guess I kind of knew that,

but just to hear him explain that,

and again,

knowing his background,

right?

I mean, he even talks about it in this interview.

He's been there 25 years plus now.

He's an engineer.

I mean, he even talked about the fact that,

because there was one question,

how when he was a kid,

like he didn't really start doing hands-on

building of things. So maybe he was in like late high school or even college,

you know,

just because the resources,

but he's like,

kids today, they just go on YouTube and like,

they're building all kinds of stuff with 3d printers and putting things together.

He's like,

it's just such an amazing time,

but just to hear him put forth that, like,

like it's not,

I mean,

you know, Apple has talked about, it's not a technology company.

It's a, it's a,

you know,

it's, it's a product company. We just are utilizing technology.

Anyway,

that was just,

that was just a good way.

Just a great insightful little video. And I'm thrilled that you, uh,

you link to it today because i would have i don't think i would have ever paid any heart

heed to it but just being where it was from but um yeah just really interesting and at one part

the funniest thing quickly is the because again i would have never seen this right

malu the uh the journalist was like so john thank you for sitting down but why why why are you talking

to us like why did you select clique and john was really kind about it he's like well you and i met

you know at wwc a couple years ago we hit it off and you know and then of course he goes into

what I would think of CEO speak,

right?

France is very important to us.

It's like, it's a great market,

et cetera, et cetera.

But it was just neat.

It's like, even the journalist was like,

thank you so much.

I don't know why you're sitting down with me,

but thank you.

I appreciate that.

Okay,

in the know.

In the know.

As I said, I'm gonna defer today.

I'm gonna give you just like something

that maybe you have been utilizing over this last week,

either from a hardware perspective,

Jeff,

or maybe from an iOS 27 perspective.

What is something that you can share

with the audience tonight?

So I have a tip for using the iPad with iPadOS 27.

And here's what it is.

Oh, great.

You know, for a while now,

we've had the ability to have these different modes

in the iPad.

Most of the time I stay what is called

the full screen app mode,

where one app takes over the entire screen,

the traditional mode.

But every once in a while,

when I went to do something more advanced,

I will switch over to the windowed apps mode,

which is like just like a computer.

You can have different windows

and the latest version of it,

you can move things around,

which is really, really nice.

The third mode,

by the way, stage manager,

I never really use stage manager on my iPad,

but I do use full screen and windows app.

Whenever I switch into the windowed app mode,

by definition,

it's because I want to do something

that's more sophisticated,

right?

And when I want to do something in that more sophisticated mode,

I like to use some of the

geeky features like side-by-side windows or things on top of each other.

And one of the things that I like, this is a new feature on iPadOS 27.

If you go in your settings app on your iPad and then you scroll down to multitasking and gestures,

one of the things that you will see is when you switch to that middle mode,

the windowed app mode, there is an option.

And it's actually,

I guess it's so new that it's actually not in the current, what you're showing on your screen right now is from the Apple help support page.

It's actually not there yet,

but on my iPad it's there and you'll see it in yours too.

There's an option there called automatically show and hide menu bar.

And it's on by default.

And what that means is,

you know how,

and this is how it was last year.

You know how like,

you know, file,

menu,

you know, edit,

file,

edit, whatever, all those

little things,

you know how you don't see them by default.

You have to like put your cursor up there to actually see them.

That's right.

But if you turn this feature off, they are always there.

It's just like a computer.

You know how on a regular computer,

file,

edit, view is always at the top of your screen.

And so I've turned this off and I actually think it's much better off because when I

am in that more geeky mode of the windowed mode, I'm going to often want to use sophisticated

features.

I'm going to be using my,

by definition,

I'm going to be using my Apple,

my magic keyboard.

So I've got like my mouse and stuff like that.

And I don't mind going menus to get to like a more

advanced options and seeing what the keyboard shortcuts are and everything else.

And so my

recommendation,

my tip is go into your settings.

If you ever use this window mode,

go into the

settings,

turn off,

automatically show and hide the menu bar, which means that the menu bar is

always visible.

It's always there.

And it's going to allow you to be like a more of a power user.

I think it's really, really great option.

I think I like it just because I forget that the menu bar

is even an option because just because we've been using the iPad for so long, but you're saying

if I turn this option off,

then it's always going to be there when I'm in that. You'll always see

the menu.

And so then I feel like I would use that a little bit more.

And when you switch back into

the full screen mode again,

it's gone.

It's gone.

So it's only there when you're in your power user

mode.

Very cool feature.

Automatically show and hide menu bar. Great. And I'll have this.

Well,

I was going to say, I'll have this link in the show notes, but the link may not help you much.

They've got to update this for iPadOS.

Oh yeah.

And even here at the very top,

maybe there's a newer one. I'll look and see. Cause this one says iOS iPadOS 26.

All right.

Well,

thanks for sharing that.

I'm sure that we'll have many more as we come through,

you know,

sharing.

We've been talking about maybe having a special edition where we can share some iOS 27

tips.

We'll see how that goes and get back to you. So thanks as always,

Jeff. Thanks for sharing with

your new reviews and we'll talk with you next week.

Thanks,

Brett. Bye-bye everybody.