Welcome to In the News for October 23rd, 2026.

I am Brett Burney from Appsinlaw.com.

And I am Jeff Richardson from iPhoneJD. Hello,

Brett. I just see you in person.

Once again,

we are in person.

This is becoming a kind of a habit here, which is what I,

I'm enjoying it very much.

Big news today.

But before that,

why don't we take,

I feel like we've got like Apple future because of the big news today.

But then let's talk just

quickly about Apple past.

Yeah.

You started off your post today about the iPod.

Yeah.

Because it has been a while now.

It's crazy to me that I think of the iPod

as something that came out later in Apple's history.

You know, it did the Macs and the Apple's,

the Apple Compute, Apple II and all this stuff.

Right,

right.

And yet the weird thing is that it's now 50 years

into the history of Apple,

as we talked about a few months ago.

Amazing.

And it was 25 years ago,

so halfway through Apple's history.

25 years.

And it's fascinating because before that time,

Apple was just a company that made computers for a very small segment of the market.

And Steve Jobs had this idea of having a digital hub,

that your Mac could be the focus of your digital life,

which at the time meant taking photographs with a digital camera, which was very new, taking digital video.

I remember that when I got in, I guess the first iMac that I purchased was in the 1990s.

It was an iMac DV,

and the DV meant digital video because it had FireWire.

And those early video cameras would use Firewire

so you could record digital video.

And the quality was very low.

But you could record home movies and you could edit them.

And iMovie came out.

And so the idea that the Mac was the center of your digital life.

And they're like, we should have a music player.

The music player market was very nascent.

There were a couple of MP3 players that were out there.

I remember that I had a Diamond Rio,

which was this tiny little device.

I did too.

It would hold eight songs.

Yeah.

You were thrilled to have eight songs.

I was elated with eight songs.

loaded up with those eight songs,

and you would go on a walk or a workout or whatever.

You could shuffle them, but you only had eight songs,

and so you'd have to manage it very carefully.

And then when Apple had the iPod,

which they found this tiny little hard drive

and put it all together,

it was an incredible project.

Within like eight months,

they went from the idea to developing it,

and suddenly you could have a thousand songs in your pocket.

That was the tagline, right?

A thousand songs in your pocket.

And it was just like, oh my goodness,

this is incredible.

I could have all the music I want,

and that was the,

But I remember the original iPod announcement.

In fact, it was supposed to be right around 9/11,

you know, the real 9/11.

And so then they had to delay it.

Yeah.

But then when it eventually was announced today,

25 years ago today,

you know,

it was interesting.

People were like, what is this gonna be?

Are people gonna like it?

Right.

The first version only worked with the Macs.

And again, very few people had Macs.

Yeah.

And you had to have Firewire,

so you had to have a newer Mac.

But then over time,

Apple decided to open up the market to Windows,

which is what started the whole halo effect

people that used a Windows computer would love their iPod so much they would consider moving

into the Apple ecosystem.

But I think just as importantly,

it was the first time that Apple made a device that wasn't

a computer.

And so they're like, you know, everybody that was making the iPod knew that this is cool,

but cell phones are the future.

I mean, we already had some smartphones at the time,

Blackberry and stuff.

And the iPod was only around for like five years.

It really wasn't around for very long before the iPhone came out in 2007 when it was

originally announced.

So not a very long time from 2001 to 2007,

but that's the course that we're on today.

And now we have iPhones and everything else

and it completely changed the company.

I just, you know, it's funny,

I still talk to people about doing a backup

for your iPhone and your iPad.

And we all think about that today as like an online backup.

But I still tell people like,

you can do a wired backup.

And I have to like explain what in the world that I meant

because back in the day with iTunes,

that was the only way to get music.

Everything was wired.

On the iPod.

Yeah.

You had to have the iTunes software,

which to your point, I remember when the iTunes software

came out and was available for Windows.

Like that was a big deal.

Like, what are you doing,

Apple?

You're going to the dark side there.

But they made it free.

And that was another way you had to have a USB cable,

or originally a FireWire, that you could buy songs

on iTunes,

on the software.

Because there's no streaming music at the time.

There was no streaming.

You bought songs.

You would,

or you would, in fact,

that was when the store came later.

I mean, originally you would take your CD.

That's right.

rip your CD to the computer,

and there was all the people worried about privacy

and everything else,

and then you would move that.

But because of the Firewire, which was an Apple invention,

but other companies used it too,

Apple was the only one that called it Firewire.

That was their proprietary name.

Sony called it like iLink or something like that.

That's exactly right, yup.

But you could,

I mean, I remember that Rio,

it's a good thing it only had eight songs,

'cause it took forever to transfer things over.

Whereas with the Firewire connection,

you could move a thousand songs,

you could move them over there 15 minutes or something,

which at the time was crazy.

You know,

nowadays again, it's all streaming music.

I know. - Nobody buys anything.

It's like my kids can't comprehend,

like no, no,

they're like,

oh, we'll just go find another song.

I'm like,

you don't understand the hoops.

We had to go back to the computer,

get the song, either rip it,

or we had to download it on iTunes,

and then copy it over,

and then like,

that was it.

No, I did it a lot too for podcasts,

'cause that's when podcasts started,

you know, aimed after the iPod podcast.

That's right. - Like we have here.

And at the time,

you would only download the podcasts

on your computer,

iTunes software.

So every time I wanted new episodes,

I'd have to sync.

I mean, at least the music,

you could sync your music once

and it's not going to change that much.

But so anyway,

so much has changed since then.

It completely changed Apple.

25 years ago.

And I still sometimes see people using iPods today,

even though they haven't been made.

The kids today.

I mean, they're doing like the wired earbuds now.

It's like those are prized possessions.

Anyway, wow.

A fun little.

So that's Apple past.

That is Apple past.

Now let's move to Apple present.

Today is Duo Day.

Duo Day.

Is what I am naming it, Jeff, officially.

Actually,

Duo Day.

Okay,

so the future that we're looking for today

is the iPhone Duo.

So we've been talking about this now.

You still have a pre-order, I believe.

Yeah, we'll get back to that in a second.

If people had pre-ordered it a week ago,

and they were quicker than you on the button,

they would have received it today.

Today is the day that they received it.

And in fact, I was talking to my son,

'cause I'm gonna be going back home to Ohio today,

and I'm like, tomorrow morning,

I told my son,

like let's go to the Apple Store.

I just want to feel it myself.

I just want to touch it.

My prediction is the Apple Store is gonna be a mad house.

I was just gonna say,

I don't think I'm the only one that has that idea.

Everybody's gonna wanna go.

If you even can get close enough to touch it,

I will be impressed.

So this is a fascinating device.

So some selected members of the press

got units about a week ago.

And those reviews dropped,

was it Wednesday or Thursday?

I forget.

I've seen them dribble out, yeah.

But it's all throughout this past week.

It may have been Wednesday.

And so now we have both written articles and videos

of people that have been playing around with the iPhone Duo.

It is a fascinating device because,

you know,

obviously it folds, that's the whole point of it.

And,

you know, when it's closed,

which I think would be the default mode

that would sort of be in your pocket closed,

you have an iPhone that is,

because it's the shape of a passport,

it's so much shorter and it's a little bit wider,

but because of the shape of apps,

you end up having what ends up being

like the smallest iPhone screen.

Yeah.

And as I understand from the reviews,

it's not great.

Because a lot of apps,

you know, there's a whole,

there's a whole app story here that,

and we'll get to that in a second.

Yeah, yeah.

But as a practical matter,

people say like,

it's really not a great iPhone in this closed mode.

The closed mode,

yeah.

Because of the nature of it.

Right.

Nilay Patel in his review,

friend of the show, I think I could say,

you and I have both had the opportunity to,

he knows us a little bit.

But his review said,

Apple says the screen is 90% of an iPhone screen

when it's in this closed state.

90, okay.

But he says that sounds good,

he's like, but the reality is that 10%,

you really notice that it's missing on the screen.

He did a good job walking through that, yeah.

So you have a closed iPhone that ain't great.

And the John Gruber review said the same thing.

Like, it's the worst iPhone of all time in the closed state.

And then you open it up.

Wow.

And suddenly you have something that is,

in some ways the coolest little mini iPad of all time.

Because how cool is it to have,

I mean I have my huge iPad here, you do too.

Yeah, I have mine, right?

I love my iPad Pro,

but it's big, it's so big.

And if I could fold it in half,

stick it in my pocket,

that would be sort of cool.

And with the iPhone Duo you can do exactly that.

You can fold it and unfold it,

and then you just have this beautiful little small device.

And some of the reviewers,

I think John Gruber

One of them said that it's like the best iPad ever because it's portable,

it's there, it's

cute, it's small, you can look at videos,

everything's a little bit bigger.

People just say that it's really, really nice.

It's really nice to use.

I have been a little surprised at how much everybody really, really likes that matte

screen on there.

And there's a couple of reasons why Apple did it, right?

I don't know that Apple has verified this, but a lot of the reviewers have said like,

It was a brilliant choice to use that matte screen on the inside because it covers up

sort of what could be that hinge.

But everybody that I've watched or talked about,

they just love that screen,

especially

in sunlight.

I think Joanna Stern's video, which is fantastic,

she was on a boat right on the Hudson River

and she's like, "I can still read everything.

It just looks fantastic."

My jury is still out on that just because I've never had the matte screen.

So even on your computer,

you don't have a matte screen or anything.

Well, no,

I pretty much all do the glossy.

Didn't they have an iPad Pro with that matte, right?

It was like a few hundred dollars extra,

and so I never really kind of cared to do that.

But so,

I don't know, that's another thing I wanna see

in addition to that hinge,

and I wanna hold it,

and the button placements, but that matte screen,

I think just is amazing,

in addition to the fact

that it's like an iPad mini-esque, that kind of a thing.

Like people,

that's the reason people like the iPad mini.

Our viewer says that it is by far,

I mean there are other folding phones in the Android world

and everyone says it is by far the best screen.

It is by far the best design.

It opens up completely flat,

unlike some of the other ones.

Which by the way, the front screen is not matte,

right?

The front screen is glossy.

So you have,

so that seems a little weird to me

that you've got both of them,

but anyway, minor kind of a thing.

But to your point, they love that internal screen.

And what everybody seems to say is it is just fun.

Yeah. - It's delightful.

You know, when Apple had its debuts video,

they showed this effect that when you open up the screen,

you know, what's on the main screen sort of transforms into the inner screen.

And it's a trick.

You know, it's a little software trick.

But it looks amazing.

And every time I see it, it looks amazing.

And everyone says,

this is like, you know,

many of us that are involved in technology that listen to a tech podcast like this,

it's because,

you know, we enjoy fun technology.

It's cool.

And this is by far the coolest thing ever.

And yet, it also seems like it's the most impractical phone.

You know, we started talking about history,

right?

You know, the iPod history,

the iPad history, the iPhone history.

I can't help but think about that original iPhone,

which came out in 2007.

I thought the same thing, yes.

Because when it came out, I thought, this looks so cool.

I mean, I was using a Palm Trio at the time.

You know, everything about it was amazing.

And yet, and yet, first of all, it was expensive, you know, whatever.

But second of all, I couldn't even use it with Microsoft Outlook email,

Exchange email.

No other apps.

So I can't use it with my work email.

Yeah.

So what's the point of having something in my pocket if I'm going to have to have something else in my pocket for my work email?

So it was a no-brainer for me for that reason.

Of course, there's no App Store and everything else, like you say, just the built-in apps.

Right,

right.

So what I'm curious about is the compromises on the iPhone Duo.

Is this just because it's the 1.0 product?

You know, are we going to have it like in a year or two when it develops more,

then people

are like, oh yeah,

that first iPhone was, you know, groundbreaking,

but not really practical.

It was really the second iPhone that people really wanted.

Or are what we're talking about just inherent limitations of the form factor?

Because if you're going to have that passport size,

you're going to always have that small

power screen,

right?

And, you know, we alluded to this before.

There's the app story.

There's like three different types of apps.

If you have an app that is made for the iPhone Duo,

then it takes full advantage of the screen,

and everything's really nice about it.

If you have an app that's not made for the Duo,

but was at least upgraded to work specifically with iOS 27,

well then it will sort of take some advantage of the Duo.

But if it's an older app,

I mean if you're using an app from your bank,

or your some other, pick whatever vendor you have

that they update their apps once a decade or whatever,

your app is not gonna be updated.

It's a horrible experience.

I remember for so long with the iPad,

well heck, I mean,

take Instagram,

the most popular apps of all time.

And it wasn't until, what, a year ago

that there was an iPad,

Instagram app?

For so long,

you would have to use the iPhone app

and expand it.

And so our companies,

you know,

it's a chicken and egg problem.

Are enough people going to want the iPhone do it?

We know there's a lot of demand today.

You know, people are lining up in stores today

and there's not enough supply.

But will there be enough users for app developers

to change all of their apps?

even apps that don't normally get updated

to take advantage of screen,

because if they don't,

you're gonna have a pretty poor experience on the Duo.

But on the other end, maybe six months from now,

everything will be fine,

all the big apps will be updated, I don't know.

I guess maybe I'm being optimistic,

and that's exactly where I'm landing.

Every reviewer has panned the experience

with the apps right now, and every single time, Jeff,

I keep thinking,

that can be fixed.

Like,

that's just a quote, a software fix,

right?

It's like, I'm not as concerned about that every time.

And I know that they are harping on that.

And right now,

for the few dozen people that have it,

I mean, I know that there's more now,

but it's like,

yeah, that's just sort of the growing pains

because I do remember when the iPad first came out,

we had that first,

I think, six months to a year with the iPad.

We still struggled with some of those apps there.

And I feel like that that was a little bit of a different form factor,

and it took a while.

But I mean, the fact that the app developers are so comfortable today

and so confident in Apple's ecosystem,

I feel like I predict within three or four months

that most of the apps that people

are going to be dealing with.

I mean,

did you see what,

there's one video where they were looking at Flighty,

which just looks amazing.

It looks amazing, yeah.

On the front, you have like your little,

you know, your details or your notifications,

but when you opened it up,

it was this beautiful looking map.

And Karat Weather,

somebody talked about Karat Weather,

right?

I think that they've updated.

I don't have a lot of concern

that the apps are going to stay bad.

I really feel, believe that that's gonna be

one of the big improvements on there.

My concern however,

is again,

the practicality.

Because yes,

it's cool when you open it up and that's fun.

But most of the time when I'm using my iPhone,

you know, I want it to be in this shape

that I'm holding it in one hand.

Right,

right, right.

I've got my thumb on it.

And to have a poor experience with the iPhone in this shape,

by the way, it's even heavier than my iPhone 18.

In the Pro Max,

you're exactly right.

It's even heavier than this, but it's sort of denser.

And people say that the weight is interesting

'cause when it's folded up, it feels so heavy,

but then when you open it, it becomes thin

and it seems better. - Yeah.

It's just sort of,

I don't know,

the center of balance of gravity or whatever else it is.

But considering that so much of my iPhone

is using it in this mode,

or at least that's what I've always done,

I'm just not sure that this Duo makes sense for me

and for many other people that are just using your iPhone

to do the things you use your iPhone with.

I resisted moving up to this max size for a long time

The max,

yeah,

yeah, yeah.

But then once I made the jump, and it is big,

and I stick it in my pocket,

and it sticks out a little bit, you know.

But I like being able to use it

to see a little bit more on the screen.

Sure.

For me,

it's worth it to have

the more screen real estate.

So for me, to go from being used to,

and very appreciative of, having larger real estate,

to go to the smallest screen real estate

in a decade,

15 years of iPhones,

gosh, I just don't know if that's gonna make sense

for a lot of users and for me.

And yes, it would be totally fun and delightful

to open it up and isn't that cool?

But how often would I do that?

I mean, if I wanna open something up,

I'm gonna reach my iPad.

Now, I don't have my iPad with me all the time.

And the Duo you could fold up

and have in your pocket 24/7,

which is cool.

But I just don't know.

So I placed a pre-order sort of as a speculative thing.

Like,

let's see.

And I thought maybe-- - Your iPhone JD,

you need to make sure that you go through.

I thought maybe I would get it today.

I'm not gonna get it, not even next week.

I think I'm slated to get it the week after.

And so I'm still curious to try it.

Look, I'm not the sort of person

that's gonna buy something when I 100% know

there's zero chance I'm gonna keep it.

'Cause it just seems sort of wasteful,

even though Apple has a very generous 14-day return policy.

Originally, I was thinking, you know what?

I know it'd be hard to justify having two iPhones,

but because this would be so cool,

maybe I would keep it.

But after the reviews,

even though people love how fun it is,

and it would be an incredible toy.

I need my iPhone for work,

right?

I mean,

not that it's all I use it for,

I also use it for fun,

but for just,

you know,

doom scrolling,

whatever, Mastodon posts,

or whatever else,

or reading the internet,

but I just don't know.

And again, I don't wanna make this personal to me.

My point is like,

if I'm on the fence,

when I love all the shiny new technology

that you could possibly get,

would Joe and Jane Consumer be excited?

I don't know,

and yet we see these reports

that Apple's saying we don't have enough demand.

I mean,

is the problem that Apple made,

you know, I heard one person joke

that it's called the iPhone Duo,

because Apple made two of them,

because that's the reason we're having

such limited supply today.

But you know,

is this really that Apple

just didn't make enough,

or did Apple make tons of them,

and yet the demand has been so over the top

that that's why people like me are waiting.

I mean, I think, I haven't even checked,

the last time we checked a week ago,

we couldn't get them until January.

It's in January.

I think it still shows January,

although I would have little hope right now.

Yeah.

Although sometimes Apple is overly pessimistic.

They might be telling people January to set your sights low

and then maybe those people will actually get them,

you know, by the end of the year, who knows.

So I'm just befuddled by this device.

I don't know how to characterize it.

Okay, so here, I wanna ask you about this

because I,

again, I believe that even by the time

that you do get this Duo,

I am confident

that a lot of the app/software experience will be improved.

I feel like it's going to,

I have that confidence.

What cannot be changed easily though,

is from a practicality standpoint,

are buttons and the way to flip.

Exactly, that's why I wanted to ask about it,

because everybody's kind of talked about that.

And you know, first of all, there's no face ID,

so that touch ID and some folks that I was talking about,

I think Marques Bradley did a good job of like,

do you put your finger on and pause?

Like that would just infuriate me,

Jeff,

that I wouldn't open as quickly as I want to.

And then the volume buttons are up at the top.

I mean, and then Nilay's video also did a good job of,

I didn't even think about this, when you open it,

like do you turn it to the right,

or do you turn it to the left?

How is it,

you want the camera up in the top?

And I just hadn't thought about that,

because then there's, the way you turn it

is gonna depend on how your buttons and your finger,

we have so much muscle memory now.

For so long,

with the iPhone in the current state that it is,

how is,

like you,

you're gonna start throwing things,

because if you switch back and forth,

I feel like between the regular iPhone and this duo,

Jeff,

because everything's in a different spot.

Yeah,

and people,

I mean,

many of the reviewers

have noted that those buttons,

you know,

you're used to being where the buttons are located

on the iPhone.

Of course.

But when you open it up and you turn it and stuff,

suddenly the buttons that you expect to be

on the right or on the top,

maybe it's something that you get used to all the time.

But I don't know, I don't know.

It's one of those logistical things.

And it's much like the Face ID.

I mean, we sort of take Face ID for granted

that I look at my phone and I unlock it.

People have said that not having Face ID on it,

needing to use Touch ID is a pain in the butt,

especially because that Touch ID button keeps moving.

And if you have an Apple Watch,

then you can unlock it with your Apple Watch.

But even then,

it's only if your Apple Watch

is primarily paired to your device.

I saw that. - And for most people,

not a problem. - Yeah.

But like,

again, my little thing,

if I was,

for people that have two of them,

my Apple Watch is paired to this iPhone.

If I had a Duo,

my Apple Watch is not gonna unlock the Duo

because it's only locked to my iPhone,

whatever this one is, 18 Pro Max.

That's right.

So, you know,

it's again, just all these practicals.

And again,

some of these are things

you might get used to over time.

Some of them are inherent to the form factor.

Yeah, yeah.

And I just don't know.

The buttons can't be moved.

Yeah.

In other words, that's not a software fix.

No.

Like whatever Apple is shipping,

like that's the way it is.

And anyway,

just that was one of the other takeaways.

While I feel like the software experience

is definitely gonna get better,

that hardware experience there is just gonna be something

that we're gonna have to, I don't know,

we'll see if people can handle it or not.

Can I also mention,

you're right-handed,

right?

I am.

I'm right-handed too.

My daughter, however,

is left-handed,

and people who are left-handed have said

that the iPhone Duo is a pain in the butt.

Absolutely.

Because the iPhone Duo has a very sharp edge

on the left and bottom corner.

It's curved on the right, so if you hold it in your right hand,

it's gonna feel comfortable in your hand,

but if you hold it in your left hand, it's gonna hurt,

because it's got this little funny thing here.

Was it Nilay was like trying to like reach over

like from the left? - And I just assumed

that Apple would make it,

wouldn't it be a software thing

that you could turn it upside down?

Oh,

I hadn't thought about that.

At least in this current generation,

that doesn't work.

Maybe that's to become.

Maybe a future update will make it work

for people left-handed,

or maybe that's not gonna work

because if it's upside down,

because of where the camera is located,

it's not gonna work for people.

I don't know, I don't know.

How would that work?

Okay,

so can I ask, I'm trying to figure this out now.

We have iOS for the iPhones.

And I remember a few years ago,

they split to the iOS and the iPadOS.

Has basically the same core,

but the iPad does things a little bit differently.

The Duo is not running a separate version of the iOS,

but there are a lot of differences

in the way that it runs on the Duo,

right?

It's the iPhone operating system,

iOS,

but it's specifically designed for the Duo form factor,

because for example, it has what people have said

is really delightful,

that you can either have

a single app full size,

There's a way to sort of put one app on the left side and one app on the right side, which

makes perfect sense for a foldable device because you know exactly where the left and

right side is.

It's not like a regular iPad where you can have windows of any size.

You know, that's a relatively new feature on the iPad that we really like and know and

love.

But,

so you lose some of the features that you would have on an iPad,

but every review

that I've read have said that it actually makes more sense.

I mean, some people have even said, I think Harry McCracken, some other people have said

like,

"Maybe this is the way that the iPad should be."

I've heard the same thing.

It's a whole new metaphor to learn.

There was one of those things that I've seen people do

is like they have the Duo side, you know,

on its side, right, horizontal.

They put two apps on there,

right?

So you have one on the left, one on the right.

But then you tap in the center.

And you lock them together.

And it locks them together.

And I'm like,

wait a minute, I can't do that on the iPad.

Because when you swipe up,

it's like they stay together.

As in like they're married

If you want those apps to be together,

you can always unlock them together.

But I kept seeing that, Jeff, and I'm like,

wait a minute, I can't do that on the iPad.

Now I can do a lot more on the iPad,

'cause I can move Windows around

and resize them and everything.

But then I'm like, I'd like to have

that lock feature maybe on the iPad.

I don't know if it would be worthwhile,

but it's little things like that.

It's like,

wait,

that's iOS,

but this is iPadOS,

and that looks like it should fit in the iPadOS,

but it's in iOS.

I'm just getting a little confused on that.

Keep in mind that this multitasking, two apps at once,

only works when it's in horizontal position.

Yeah,

okay. - A lot of people said

that one of the coolest ways to use a duo

is actually flipped over in vertical position.

Right, right. - But you can only use

one app at a time in that with one exception.

The only exception is you can have a video.

A video,

okay, okay. - So for example,

you can have a video come out and the video plays

at the top while you have something at the bottom.

And the way that you can even get the video to do that

is a little tricky,

like there were reviews that actually say,

here's the four steps you need to go through

to actually get it set up that way.

Wow.

It's cool.

Okay.

But then of course,

we should mention that there's other modes too.

Like there's this clamshell mode

where it's sort of like a laptop

where you sort of set like one thing's flat

and one part's here.

And then there's the tent mode

where you sort of put it on a triangle.

People were typing on that little tiny.

People put it in standby mode.

It's totally innovative

and there's so cool things you can do with it.

Yeah.

And yet there's so many things you can't do with it.

It's fascinating.

Okay, so all of this talking,

there have been several reviews.

Some of them you linked to today, which is great.

I don't think that you included Marques Brownlee's video

on there, but-

I haven't watched it yet.

I'm sure it's good.

Oh, it's excellent.

You know what, and here's the thing that I liked

about him starting off.

He really recognizes the fact that this is

a first generation device.

I mean, and again,

we've mentioned this before,

Jeff,

but I don't want to gloss over it.

I mean,

this is truly a fork in the road

that Apple has done.

I mean,

we have been living with this form factor

of an iPhone for so long now,

and Apple has refused to do anything different.

I mean, we've had the mini size,

we've had the Max,

you know, we've had different sizes,

but it's always still-- - I think the big change

is the iPhone X, because the iPhone X-

Correct,

yes,

that's right.

That got rid of the button and a fuller screen.

That's right. - But that's been,

how many years ago, a very long time ago.

Exactly, but the fact that they are truly,

like, comprehensively changing this idea,

and again, it's just the first generation,

Marques did a very good job of pointing that out,

And I think that that highlights maybe some of the reasons why we still have either these reservations.

You know, it takes some time for folks to get used to the form factor.

I mean, Apple,

we've seen it in the history before.

Apple will make changes,

right?

I mean, they're listening.

They're watching this,

both on the software side as well as the hardware side.

I thought your idea,

flipping it over for a left-hander, that's fantastic.

That would address a lot of things.

Maybe they didn't have time to do that before they shipped.

But it's those things like that that I truly believe.

even the next generation of this duo.

The last paragraph of Nilay Patel's review in The Verge

says we have a policy at The Verge

that we review a product for what it is today,

not what it's gonna be tomorrow.

Yeah, yeah, great point, that's right.

And I think that that is a good point,

is that we can all say this is the first step

of something new,

and I'm sure looking back in history,

much like that first iPod,

that first iPhone,

perhaps we will look back on this and say that

the things that people were complaining about,

those compromises were just because it was a 1.0 product.

or maybe some of those compromises are just inherent

to the form factor.

Yeah, yeah,

that's true.

And we will have to see.

So anyone who goes out there and buys an iPhone duo,

bravo to you because you are on the cutting edge,

you're on the forefront,

and you're gonna get all the cool new stuff,

shiny new toys,

but you're also gonna have some frustrations.

Even in Eli's video, he kinda says that along the lines,

that he's like,

"For somebody like me,

that I love the new tech,

I love the shiny new things,

I'm willing to,

I mean, I'm paraphrasing what he said,

but like he's willing to kind of put up

with some of these annoyances for now,

because it is fun to your point,

the way you started off.

People are just enjoying the fact that it's fun.

And boy, when I start seeing this out in the wild,

Jeff,

I'm gonna recognize it, right?

You're gonna have some fear of this,

FOMO, whatever.

Absolutely,

but I'm like,

oh, well,

that person's very cool.

'Cause they have the new duo.

Okay,

if there's one video,

well, I mean, there's so many videos already,

but one that you linked to today,

I already watched it to is Joanna Stern's video.

It is absolutely fantastic.

And I think what I love so much about it

is that she immediately went to the first thing

that I have been talking about is,

I gotta know how many times you can fold and unfold

this silly thing. - How adorable is it?

Before it starts getting loose,

before something starts cracking or creaking

or something like that.

So she went and did like, sort of like a homegrown experiment.

I mean,

she found some gentleman that built like a 3D printed servo with a servo motor that she calculated it out.

Like overnight,

she would leave it on her desk and it would open and close.

It was like 36,000 opens and closes.

And she concluded at the end of that video, I hate to do a spoiler here, but she's like, I don't think it's any looser.

I don't think there was any difference.

She said a couple of nights,

you know, she would come in in the mornings and she would say,

maybe it's a little looser.

But at the end of the conclusion of this video, which is totally worth watching for a multitude of reasons,

she's like, I think it's okay.

I think it's all right.

You know what that means to me?

It is an evidence to me that Apple hardware is really good.

Really good.

Like their hardware engineers,

when they come up with ways to do things,

it is wonderful.

And sometimes the Apple software isn't quite there yet.

Sometimes Siri wasn't quite there yet.

And we had years before we got the new version of that.

And you know,

things that can be updated in software,

you hope that they'll get better in time,

but the hardware,

everyone says that putting aside

the inherent limitations of this form factor

and the button issues and stuff like that,

but just so much of the form of the hardware feels wonderful.

It just is so nice,

so much better

than what's out there on the market.

And how many times have we seen this before?

The first iPhone comes out

and then every other smartphone looks the same way.

The first iPod comes out and even the MP3 player,

you know,

Apple sets the stage.

We have this home view coming out in a couple of weeks.

Yeah.

And I, who knows what it's gonna be like.

I kind of forgot about that.

But I have to say,

I suspect the hardware

is gonna be very impressive.

Because Apple does a great job with hardware.

Okay, one thing I remember now from Joanna's video,

going back to the hardware,

the lack of a zoom lens.

Like the camera is,

somebody,

several folks said this,

it's like you're paying top dollar

for a very expensive iPhone and you're getting

a not so great camera.

It's good enough,

but it doesn't have that zoom.

But it doesn't have zoom, which I use all the time.

All the time.

Yeah,

but again, some people get the lower end iPhones

that don't have the zoom.

True, true. - I mean,

for me it's the reason to get the Pro.

But they wouldn't be buying a Duo though.

Yeah, and then even then,

I mean,

even if you ignore the lack of the zoom lens,

which for me would be the hugest thing.

Yeah.

I mean, I wouldn't want that at all.

I use my zoom lens all the time.

The regular cameras on it are just okay.

They're just okay.

They're not nearly as good as what you've gotten

for the last couple of years of iPhones.

The camera that's on the inside part for FaceTime video is like the worst FaceTime video camera ever.

And again,

if you're just doing a silly FaceTime video with your loved ones,

I mean, whatever, you don't have to look.

It's probably okay.

And it does have that advantage that you can actually use the, instead of the face front-facing camera,

you can actually use the camera on the back because it unfolds and you can see yourself on the side.

So it's got some unique things,

but if camera is an important part of the iPhone for you, iPhone Duo.

Don't Duo.

Go solo.

Okay.

So I know that we've been,

I've been looking forward to this day because I've been looking forward to like the reviewers,

normal people getting it out as opposed to just Apple marketing videos.

Getting folks that have been using it for several days.

I mean, even Eli Patel was, I mean,

two things quickly.

He was like, I have tried to force myself to use this as my daily driver,

the duo.

Although at one point of the video, he even says, you know, there were a few times where I just took out my iPhone 17 Pro just because I needed to get something done.

And I couldn't get it done on the Duo in an easy enough way.

So,

okay.

So, we talked about the history of the iPod.

25 years.

Amazing.

I guess we could call the Duo as the present.

And Apple is not done.

I am having a difficult time keeping track of all of these devices,

Jeff, that Apple has been releasing.

Like this,

I don't, have we had anything this crazy

from a season? - I can't remember.

Because this week Apple announced another event

that's gonna be happening what, next week now?

The 28th I believe?

Yeah, next week.

They called it, oh here, they called it Pro and Tell.

Pro and Tell.

Pro and Tell.

So the Pro has got to refer

to the MacBook Pro because people have said

that it's due for an update. - Okay.

And the big rumor is that it's gonna be the first time

that a Mac has something that Windows computers

have had for a long time,

which are touchscreens.

Ah.

And it will be interesting to see.

Apple has done such a good job with the iPad touchscreen

for so many years and stuff like that.

I suspect it's going to just be sort of seamless.

I mean,

my guess is when you have this computer,

you won't use your touchscreen all the time.

Yeah.

But there's gonna be those times.

We've all had that time that you're sitting

in front of a computer and you just instinctively touch

the screen and then you're like, oh wait, I can't.

Or you scroll up or something.

I can't touch a screen.

Right.

So that will be something that will be sort of new.

The rumor is we'll also see like a lower end MacBook as well,

of MacBook Pro and that we will also see a new iPad mini

with a really nice OLED screen.

Really?

Which will be funny because for the people

that want that small form factor,

do you get the Duo or do you get the mini?

An iPad mini that doesn't fold.

That doesn't fold,

but runs the iPad operating system.

Right.

Which gives you some advantages.

So,

but I mean,

between new MacBooks,

new iPhone that I have,

the new iPhone Duo,

new iPads,

the Home View thing that is coming out.

I mean,

there are so many products.

And then that's ignoring the fact of all the huge changes

in the software and the brand new Siri

that I'm using all the time to ask questions

and it's giving me answers.

And I'm like, "Wow, thank you for figuring that out."

There was something with my car the other day

that for years I did not know how to figure this out

on my car and I just asked Siri and it's like,

"Oh, here's the answer."

I'm like, "How did you get that answer so quickly?"

And it turned out it had found one of those

like specialized car forums somewhere on the internet

that like some post that somebody did.

And they figured it out.

I'm like, "Well,

thank you.

I wish I had known this years ago."

And the idea that I just asked my iPhone

and got the answer instantly.

That's amazing.

This is just so cool.

So can I, just real quick,

when,

haven't we normally seen iPads released

like in March timeframe?

It varies.

Or is that from the new iPad?

I mean, if there has been a pattern,

the high end iPads, like the iPad Pro,

have traditionally been in the spring.

Okay,

okay.

But this is gonna be the mini,

and the mini is always its own beast.

There have been years where Apple didn't update the mini

for years and we're like,

Is there gonna ever be another iPad mini again?

And so you can't.

But I'm wondering,

Jeff,

like maybe Turnus is changing all kinds of stuff

in this aspect.

Like I don't necessarily wanna believe that,

you know, he's changing everything,

but I mean,

this was the last,

you know, the duo,

we had it, we traditionally have it before

like the holiday season.

So this is when everybody's excited about it.

The iPads typically have been in the spring.

I mean, we've had this kind of cadence,

but I don't know, maybe something will change.

I feel like something's happening from an Apple stance,

Maybe, or maybe it's just, you know,

it all kind of happened in this year for whatever reason.

But I don't know,

I feel like Ternus might decide

to just like, hey, we're gonna change around some of these

or maybe release more products.

I don't know, it's just gonna be kind of an exciting time.

We know that these things have been in the lab for years,

right? - True, exactly.

They don't show up everywhere.

So to a certain degree,

maybe it's just a happy happenstance

that we have a new CEO at Apple,

John Ternus,

somebody who grew up in the product side,

Doing the hardware,

that's right.

and the first thing that he gets to do as president

is announce more new products

in such a short period of time than Apple has ever seen.

But not a bad way to start his job, huh?

I tell you what.

Fantastic,

that's great.

And the thing is, the reviews,

I mean, putting aside the compromises of the duo

and everything else,

people have been pretty excited about this stuff.

Yeah.

And so it's a fun time to be in the Apple ecosystem

right now,

which is just awesome.

So next week when we talk,

we'll have more reviews of the duo,

and possibly like even common folk,

right?

Non-journalists and stuff that have actually been using it.

And hey, if you've got one, let us know,

write into Jeff's, into the blog and let us know.

But then next Friday,

we'll have this event.

We're now theoretically, we don't do a whole lot

of maybe talking about MacBooks, but you know,

we'll mention them,

but certainly if a new iPad comes out,

even an iPad mini,

that will be exciting.

And who knows what else?

I feel like Apple's just got several things

maybe up their sleeve.

Who knows what they could throw out next week as well.

So that's a lot.

I don't know that we'll be in person again.

That makes me sad next week.

But we will talk with you next week regardless,

Jeff.

Thanks,

Brett.

Bye-bye, everybody.